MP shot

[upthecreekyetagain]

Jo Cox, Labour MP has been stabbed and shot!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/jo-cox-labour-mp-shot-stabbed-birstall-west-yorkshire-bat...

[fallen-archie]

Very sad turn of events. Classic locally born MP popular with her constituents. If she had been some radical left or right winger she may well have expected to come under pressure but given her background and dedication to the less privileged it is very hard to understand why any sane person would take this action and in the process her life. Deepest sympathy to her Husband and two children.

[0125arwen]

The constant rise in gun crime is worrying, RIP.

[023mjc]

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@fallen-archie wrote:

it is very hard to understand why any sane person would take this action

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A sane person wouldn't.  A terrible tragedy.

[cee-dee]

That was a wicked act for no reason at all. It's time proper retribution was brought about for such things.

Although there's no "difference" just because she was an MP, for such wicked crimes there has to be a proper, more fitting punishment than pandering to the excuses often offered up in the defence of such wicked people.

When I read the very first reports of the crime I felt that she'd not survive and from what's been said so far it seems the bloke planned to kill someone and there seems no getting away from the fact that it was therefore premeditated.

You watch, the defence will trot out something along the lines that he hadn't intended to kill that particular lady and she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time?

[l111da]

This whole issue is one of mental health - this guy had a mental health problem. From the word go I wondered what caused this terrible assault. Its just been stated that this man had a long history of mental health problems. Only earlier this week I'd been talking about how many people were on the streets that had a serious problem - and there was nowhere for these people to be taken to help them - and at the same time protect others from actions such as this. The gun - and the knife are actually secondary to this whole incident, they are easy to get hold of in this frightening world!

So terrible - for all those who are left, her husband, children, parents, all innocent and yet now suffering from a crime that they will pay a terrible price for, for the rest of their lives.

[mikes*corvettes]

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@l111da wrote:

a crime that they will pay a terrible price for, for the rest of their lives.

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Unlike the perpetrator, who no doubt will be mollycoddled.

[joe_bloggs*]

Interesting article in the pro leave Spectator:

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/a-day-of-infamy/

[medealady]

The sad outcome will be various factions will point the finger at the other for this atrocity.  How much have the Remain theats fuelled the fire of fear? The threatening emergency Budget? With each threat comes a counter threat as with a 2 horse race each side attempts to out-threaten the other.  Whilst we the 'common' people try and make sense of fact from fiction.  The 'powers that be' consider not the equivalent of the lone gunman, isolated, unhinged maybe drinking and the rest driven to distraction by a feeling of hopelessness. The people probably didnt also expect the Party of Power to bully to such an extent in such a one sided manner, enlist cross party support and state what they could and would do if voters dared to disagree.

The best outcome would be for the last days pre referendum for both sides to only deal in hard facts and admit everthing else that is a guesstimate. In the 70's we voted for a Common Market/Agricultural Policy and what we ended up with should be the lesson as to what the future holds when idle hands need to justify their existance. 

[al**bear]

A Right Wing nut job killed her

He was screaming BRITAIN FIRST, put Britain First as He shot & stabbed her

Britain First  released a statement blaming the media for linking them to the killing, even though it was an eye witness who told the story right after the event, the Media seemed too scared to report this fact right away.

Right-wingers have been threatening Her since She was elected

[astrologica]

In your first sentence Al, the emphasis should be on 'nut job', not 'right wing'. There are millions of people in this country who have right wing views to various degrees, but who would never perpetrate a crime like this. But there are also probably millions of people with mental health problems who are living in our midst without proper support. Every week there is some sort of murder or terrible violent act perpetrated by someone with mental health issues, We are also sitting on a time bomb of huge proportions with the number of people with a history of long term cannabis use, which brings paranoia, schizophrenia and psychosis. We see the results of this regularly. It is really sad that people will now use this lady's terrible death as referendum propaganda, as you have done. Nowhere should the referendum be mentioned in connection with her murder. That is the lowest of the low.

[fallen-archie]

The comments on here regarding the perpetrators mental state need to be taken in context and not used to describe mental illness in the round. Mental health care is poor in the uk and needs more resources however many who suffer are neither a danger to others or themselves. They suffer very often silently and often in isolation, they are not nut cases but they are ill. Until people understand the very varied and complex nature of mental illness and make a distinction comments which may seem appropriate to this situation may do irreparable harm to others.

[astrologica]

I understand extremely well the complexities of mental illness, having had a family member by marriage who suffered, so I don't need to have that pointed out. And the words 'nut job' were written by Al, and then quoted, in context, by me. There are varying types and degrees of mental illness, and this is compounded by the fact that often, as you say, sufferers fail to get help. And if they do get help, they are then left floundering by poor mental health services. My point was, that whatever views this person had, he would be unlikely to have become so violent if he were not mentally ill. So his illness is a factor, and is very relevant. There are many, many drug users among us who are paranoid and psychotic, who do pose a danger to others, but who have not come to the attention of any authority...probably because they themselves haven't the slightest idea that they are ill. 

[fallen-archie]

Sorry Astro my comments were not aimed at you but were an attempt to highlight problems to the wider audience.

[astrologica]

No problem Archie...🙂

[joe_bloggs*]

Special police units who searched the house of the man arrested after the killing of Jo Cox are believed to have found samples of Nazi regalia and far-right literature.

Thomas Mair was also known to have bought books from a US-based neo-Nazi group, including guides on how to build homemade guns and explosives, according to an anti-hate campaign group in the US. Among them was a manual on how to make a homemade pistol.

Sources say that the suspected killer was lucid when first questioned. A picture is now emerging of a deliberately targeted attack in which Mair lay in wait for the MP as she emerged from her constituency surgery on Thursday

.

Witnesses have confirmed that he shouted “Britain first” or “Put Britain first” as he attacked the 41-year-old mother of two.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/17/jo-cox-suspect-thomas-mair-bought-gun-manuals-from-u...

as of yet we do not know the exact circumstances leading to the murder of Jo Cox,but we do know that nasty rhetoric can have nasty consequences

[al**bear]

As came out in Court and by People investigating Him

He's IS a Right Wing Nut Job - a longtime Supporter of the National Alliance

It was despicable the way, all the Right Wingers & some  Brexiteers, cried foul at anyone who dared to mention His politics or  His rants. These are the same people who tar their enemies with an all encompassing brush

Well done the BBC & The Star, for taking the flack and sticking to their guns and reporting, what the Main eyewitness reported

A mark of shame on all the other Media who didn't even mention His story, they are the same media that print anti-Muslim and anti-left stories with the weakest of proof - demonising them all.

This Whole campaign has been a insight into the real thinking of loads of Tories & most Ukipers - the veneer came off and their inbuilt Racism & little-Englander thinking, has come to the surface.

Like loads of similar killers, yes they may have 'mental issues' -

But that should not stop Us pointing the finger at the Politicians and others who rant and rave, their extreme views. They must take responsibility, when People like Thomas Mair, take to heart what they are saying and take direct action, because that's what they heard in these rants.  The Right Wingers have used Brexit as cover to espouse their hatred, Farage and the others must take responsibility for intentionally stirring these things up

[fallen-archie]

Great post Al. I too am unnereved by the developments seen during this campaign. It has been brutal in the way it has played out and pitted friend against friend in a despicable way. The unrest has been bubbling since the last referendum, right wingers like Bill Cash and John Redwood constantly upsetting the democratic process. Now we are told by people that unless you vote Brexit you are disloyal, stupid, anti British, and a pile of other descriptions and expletives unmentionable on here.

I am yet to see one argument put in favour of staying which has not been branded as a lie, scaremongering or fictitious. I am yet to see any answers by the Brexit campaign to legitimate concerns raised and there is a very real ethnic cleansing element driving those who fear loss of jobs, services and benefits. In any simple yes no referendum the right wing need to mobilise the masses and one way of doing that effectively is to use a simple easily identified subject and develop it as a threat, enter Immigration. It's good because as a small island it is very visible, They come from all over to wreck our economy and way of life a bit like we did to them when we colonised so many parts of the globe, for our own means of course. How can you form an alliance with those who you have been constantly at odds with, the Germans or the French even the Spanish our most popular place to visit and find sunshine. You cannot in the course of a few decades form the alliance without there being problems especially given the circumstances I have mentioned. It takes courage, stamina and a preparedness to argue and reason. You cannot expect those we turn our backs on to then welcome us with open arms, some may but what will become of what's left of our manufacturing base when Nissan, Toyota. Honda, Bmw, General Motors get tariffs slapped on their products? These are the realities we dismiss in this referendum and we do so without any tangible evidence on either side.

All the emotion and all the certainty expressed on here is based solely on what people want to believe gawd help us if this it what we have come to, is this the way to a better Britain? Well as long as we ignore the arguments and rubbish the facts who the heck knows.

[0125arwen]

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@medealady wrote:

The sad outcome will be various factions will point the finger at the other for this atrocity.  How much have the Remain theats fuelled the fire of fear? The threatening emergency Budget? With each threat comes a counter threat as with a 2 horse race each side attempts to out-threaten the other.  Whilst we the 'common' people try and make sense of fact from fiction.  The 'powers that be' consider not the equivalent of the lone gunman, isolated, unhinged maybe drinking and the rest driven to distraction by a feeling of hopelessness. The people probably didnt also expect the Party of Power to bully to such an extent in such a one sided manner, enlist cross party support and state what they could and would do if voters dared to disagree.

The best outcome would be for the last days pre referendum for both sides to only deal in hard facts and admit everthing else that is a guesstimate. In the 70's we voted for a Common Market/Agricultural Policy and what we ended up with should be the lesson as to what the future holds when idle hands need to justify their existance. 

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It did not take long for your words to be proven correct,

we could all guess at the murderers motives and claim to know the cause,

it could be that farage standing in front of a poster pushed mair over the edge, 

or it could be the constant threats from the remain camp,

maybe it has something to do with mair struggling to find real employment when his voluntary work ended,

it could be that he blames labour and their wars and open door policy for the suffering we now see in other countries and on a smaller scale right here, point being i doubt even mair really knows why he did what he did.

to try and twist this to be anyone fault but mair's is childish, but desperate people say desperate things.

Proven by the responses from the remain camp.

[astrologica]

In connection with the murder of Jo Cox,I have only seen ONE mention of the fact that the day before she was murdered, Mr Mair approached mental health services and asked for help because he was having a crisis. The real disgrace is not the tone of the propaganda regarding this referendum. It is the tragic lack of help for people with mental health issues. It is abominable, the way Jo Cox' murder has been used for propaganda, but then politics has always been a nasty game and this referendum has been no different. The way that people view this tragic murder will inevitable be coloured by their political leanings and their view in the EU. The judge at Mr Mair's hearing recommended that he be seen by mental health professionals, so she could obviously see that he was in crisis.