14-06-2015 10:41 PM
Stick with the story........ Let us suppose that 70 years ago a man was accidentally shot dead while out shooting Grey squirrels in a large wood with a group of other people.
An inquest decided it was an accident and that one of the group was the unfortunate shooter. There was no charges as it was deemed an accident.
Now, long after the death of the victims wife, some old diaries, notes and papers were read through by an interested party who was shocked to discover that the victims wife had detailed in her notes a few days before her death that she'd got away with killing her husband in revenge after discovering his infidelity.
The family were "of means" and lived on a large estate where "Hunt'n, shoot'n and fish'n" was the norm and they had a large selection of guns. The way the wife had "got away with it" was that she'd taken one of the .22 rifles and fired a bullet in to a water barrel, then taken that bullet and fitted it in to another .22 cartridge case after carefully pulling out its bullet. She'd then loaded one of their old "garden guns" with the doctored round and hid it in the woods.
When the party went squirrel shooting (at the wife' suggestion), she'd taken her own personal rifle and the party guests had taken the other .22 rifles. The garden gun was smooth bore, ie, not rifled. When she used the garden gun to shoot her husband, the fatal bullet was found to be rifled but didn't match the wife's rifle.
Now, 70 years ago, forensics were not as advanced as they are today so the fact that the rifling on the fatal bullet may have been a bit..... er.... scored(???) after being fired again in a smooth bore gun wouldn't have been noticed.
The question is....:-
After all that time, would the revellation result in re-opening the inquest or would the powers-that-be decide that there was no useful purpose in wasting time and effort in doing that as the murderer was long dead as was the person who'd wrongly been identified as the accidental shooter?
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
15-06-2015 6:22 PM
If it was fired in to a water tank, how would it be distorted by being fired??????
It's travelled down a barrel in to a tank of water, it hasn't hit anything (except water) so what's distorted it so it wouldn't fit back in to a cartridge case from which another bullet has just been removed?
Have you ever had a .22 rimfire cartridge, a fired cartridge case, an unfired bullet or a fired bullet in your hands?
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
15-06-2015 6:47 PM - edited 15-06-2015 6:52 PM
@cee-dee wrote:If it was fired in to a water tank, how would it be distorted by being fired??????
It's travelled down a barrel in to a tank of water, it hasn't hit anything (except water) so what's distorted it so it wouldn't fit back in to a cartridge case from which another bullet has just been removed?
Have you ever had a .22 rimfire cartridge, a fired cartridge case, an unfired bullet or a fired bullet in your hands?
No, cee-dee, I've never had any of them in my hands. Are you an American? I only ask because US citizens seem more familiar with guns. With some troublesome results, as we see on the news.
15-06-2015 7:07 PM
No, I'm not American!
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
15-06-2015 7:26 PM
Well, I thought you were American, as it seemed to come across, but let it go!
15-06-2015 7:27 PM
@cee-dee wrote:If it was fired in to a water tank, how would it be distorted by being fired??????
It's travelled down a barrel in to a tank of water, it hasn't hit anything (except water) so what's distorted it so it wouldn't fit back in to a cartridge case from which another bullet has just been removed?
Have you ever had a .22 rimfire cartridge, a fired cartridge case, an unfired bullet or a fired bullet in your hands?
You try hitting water at several hundred miles an hour - bet you wouldn't fit in your shell suit!!!!!!!!
15-06-2015 7:31 PM
@upthecreekyetagain wrote:
@cee-dee wrote:If it was fired in to a water tank, how would it be distorted by being fired??????
It's travelled down a barrel in to a tank of water, it hasn't hit anything (except water) so what's distorted it so it wouldn't fit back in to a cartridge case from which another bullet has just been removed?
Have you ever had a .22 rimfire cartridge, a fired cartridge case, an unfired bullet or a fired bullet in your hands?
You try hitting water at several hundred miles an hour - bet you wouldn't fit in your shell suit!!!!!!!!
See that's what I thought - if a bullet hits water at several hundred mph, it's bound to get distorted. But that American lady, said it wouldn't.
15-06-2015 7:32 PM
I'm not made of Lead so that doesn't apply.
Ballistic tests are usually done by firing bullet in to either water or ballistic gel.
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
15-06-2015 7:50 PM
This is a link to the Mythbusters site
http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2005/07/mythbusters_bulletproof_water.html
They switched to a .223 rifle, which shoots at 2500 ft/s
15-06-2015 8:19 PM
http://www.verisis.co/en/solutions/ballistic-water-tank
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
15-06-2015 9:38 PM
I don't think a .22 from range can kill someone ,unless it was fired with the barrel of water ,and that might be how C got away with no evidence of the pellet being tampered with found ? You know the barrel of water hitting D at a couple of hundred miles an hour may have kept the pellet in tip top fired once shape .
15-06-2015 10:21 PM
Pellet? It wasn't an air rifle.
There's three common .22 cartridges, .22 short, .22 long and .22 long rifle. There are others but they're..... uncommon!
A garden gun would be used for short range so it would be chambered for a .22 short. There's also .22 shotshells which can be used inside buildings for birds or rats.
You can fire .22 shorts in a rifle chambered for the longs but you can't fire a long or long rifle in a gun like a garden gun chambered for shorts.
There's also reduced velocity, low velocity and high velocity. The bullets are either solid or hollow point.
Bearing in mind lady C and friends were after Grey Squirrels, they wouldn't be wanting bullets flying a mile away so would all be using shorts.
A short would be used in a garden gun so lady C could quite easily stuff a low velocity bullet (that she'd fired in to a water barrel) back in to the end of another short case from which she'd removed the original bullet and load it in the garden gun which she'd hidden in a convenient place in the wood chosen for the squirrel shoot.
Would you be prepared to allow someone to test fire a .22 short from a smooth bore gun in to your head at 25 yards?
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
15-06-2015 10:35 PM
Only if it was you CD 🙂
15-06-2015 10:39 PM - edited 15-06-2015 10:40 PM
I am only trying to help 😄 ...
.a barrel of water is a good way of getting rid of D though,that will have em baffelled as to which pellet killed who.
16-06-2015 12:59 AM
@cee-dee wrote:http://www.verisis.co/en/solutions/ballistic-water-tank
Typically when a water tank is used for ballistic matching a cartridge has to be down loaded to prevent it breaking up. I suppose Lady C was capable of carrying out this task without killing herself.
16-06-2015 4:34 AM - edited 16-06-2015 4:36 AM
D would then have gone to prison for causing C's death by accidental suicide brought about by D forcing C to drastic measures..............so I for one am glad she hit him with a water barrel.
Where the hell is my editor alan,dave vincent whatever they're called..I have mispelt loads of times and no edit message ????
16-06-2015 10:06 AM
UTCYA, have you ever taken a bullet out of a live .22 cartridge?
I have, I survived and to prove it I'm here.
A rimfire cartridge requires the rim (obviously) to be struck quite hard to fire it, it's not difficult to get the bullet out if you're careful.
What do you mean by "downloading" for ballistic matching?????
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
16-06-2015 10:10 AM
16-06-2015 10:33 AM
16-06-2015 10:49 AM
If you're using .22 LV short solids, they don't do as much damage as a long or a LR.
Have you fired a .22 bullet in to water or recovered any from something you've shot? Try it and see the results eh?
Yes, I've messed about with .22 rifles and ammo and before anyone asks, with FC.
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
16-06-2015 11:08 AM - edited 16-06-2015 11:09 AM