Harris, no re-trial.

[cee-dee]

The latest trial of Rolf Harris has ended with the jury failing to agree. It was already a re-trial and it's been decided there won't be another (re-trial).

In the light of many such cases, isn't it time the Laws regarding evidence needs some overhaul?

Leaving aside whether Harris was guilty or not and the issue of victims seeking "justice", it seems most unfair that many years after an alleged "incident" someone can come along and make an accusation without any evidence whatsoever except for their word?

Put yourself in a similar position of being totally innocent (forget Harris for now) and facing a public accusation and a possible trial. How would you defend yourself if you did have the time, were in the place and had the opportunity but you really did do nothing? You're facing a serious allegation, you've been publicly identified and all you can say is that you "didn't do it" so what else can you do?

What beats me is that there have been cases where several youths have been in a stolen vehicle, the driver fails to stop for the cops, a chase ensues involving several cop cars and a helicopter, the youths ditch the vehicle and make off, are eventually tracked down and arrested but later, no charges are brought, why not?

The cops can't prove who was driving, they can't prove who stole the vehicle so there's been a chase costing a fortune in time and effort and all for what? The youths have extensive criminal records, some for "taking vehicles without consent" (= stealing cars), they haven't been publicly identified and they've not faced a highly publicised trial even though there's no doubt they were in a stolen vehicle.

I suppose those who see good in all sorts of repeat offenders (but who decide those facing allegations of misconduct are guilty on accusation) will find excuses for for them either getting away scot-free or with a slap on the wrist type of sentence but all these things have a cost and it's the taxpayer who picks up the bill.

The Laws on evidence and costs need some sort of a re-think?

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@cee-dee wrote:

Well there you are then, you said such a thing would never go to Court.

All along I've said that the standard for evidence should be the same right across the board.

---

Actually I said no such thing - what I did say is that in cases where it is just one person making an accusation with no other evidence the case would never get to court.

This case backs me up on that - no action was taken after the first accusation - it was only when there was a second accusation in similar circumstances that a court case was instigated.

When the judge dismissed the evidence of one of the victims leaving just a single accuser the prosecution offered no evidence in the remaining case.

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/11019145.Sex_assault_charges_against_Chilton_doctor_thrown_out...

[cee-dee]

Well now, you said a case involving a single complainant would never go to Court, but..... a case concluded the other day where a man was convicted after a complaint by a single person.

It seems that no matter what happens, your politician's/lawyer's wriggling won't allow you to concede that what one person says is accepted as evidence in one type of case but isn't accepted as evidence in others.

OK, so every case is different, yes, it sure is but the standard of evidence should be the same across the board which has been my stance from the start.

[upthecreekyetagain]

Which case was that?

I do not accept that a "he said, she said" case that depended entirely on one persons verbal evidence would ever get to court let alone result in a conviction - you have yet to supply an example that would challenge that assertion.

[cee-dee]

See, you won't accept my word for anything but it's OK for accusers words to be taken as fact?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-40342795

[upthecreekyetagain]

We know little of this case so it is somewhat presumptive to say the only evidence for the prosecution was the word of the victim.  This was a three day trial so what else was presented to the court?  With a victim as young as this reporting of trial details is very limited.

We don't know whether she was in care or lived at home with her family - how the accused knew her or got to know her - what circumstantial evidence surrounding the times when the offences took place exists nor even what the offence actually was.  Was there a legitimate reason for this man to be in contact with the girl?

Was there medical evidence of abuse, what did the picture referenced in the link actually depict?  The questions go on and were no doubt addressed in court - details which don't appear to have been reported as they could identify the victim.

We know so little about the case that to use it as an example to support your stance or mine is not possible.

[cee-dee]

It was a single accuser and that's that. Pretty clear that there was no other evidence or it would have been mentioned as media reports like to sensationalise.

Note also it was a majority verdict, not unanimous.

[j_uk643]

This is a quote from Cumbria police on the case
my bold and underlining 



"Detective Constable Cheryl Skelton said: “This was a difficult investigation for all those at Cumbria Police and partner agencies, who worked together to assist in safeguarding the victim from harm and gathering vital evidence. I am pleased that our hard work and multi-agency approach has led to Ferguson answering for what he did to his young child victim" 



“I would like to praise the bravery of the victim throughout both the police investigation and the trial, and thank Witness Care at Carlisle Crown Court, who have provided support to the victim and other witnesses throughout the court hearings".

[j_uk643]

Re other case on here

cps dispute the claim and say there was enough evidence to proceed

Telegraph reporting it as taking place on Waterloo concourse, when stills show it as in the underground passages

It lasted 3 days, so what did they do for three days with allegedly no evidence - watch telly, do some knitting?

tapes would be obtained through BTP who investigated, rest of that serious allegation doesn't make much sense