Grenfell and the media.

[astrologica]

I'm sticking my head above the parapet here..I'd like to ask if anyone else on here thinks that the media have gone totally overboard with their coverage of the Grenfell fire? There is yet another March in London again today, which will be extensively covered. Is there a danger that the public will become totally fed up of constant references to it and begin to think 'oh no...not Grenfell again'. I do wonder if political correctness has taken over.

On Thursday, there were endless TV and radio stations in London covering the memorials. I actually heard James O'Brien on LBC say that the Grenfell fire was ' The greatest peacetime tragedy to befall these islands since the 2nd world war, since the Blitz'. I would urge him to do some research before opening his sanctimonious PC mouth. Has he not heard of Aberfan, 1966 ..116 little children and 28 adults dead? Zeebrugge..1987..193 dead. Bethnal Green tube station..1943.173 dead.Piper Alpha..1988..167 dead. Stockport 1967..Hillsborough..the list goes on. 

Grenfell was a tragedy, and heads should certainly roll, and no doubt we will hear endless reports about that. 

Apologies for the rant, but my BP has been up ever since I heard O'Brien say that. I listen to LBC a lot, but I usually switch him off as soon as he opens his mouth...but I was just a little too slow on this occasion.

There....you can shoot me now!

[fallen-archie]

Sorry about that, I was just trying to digest the criticism of my post, the good thing is it is great to see both sides of a story, the bad thing is our unwillingness to discuss genuine concerns without being tagged as a racist. As far as politics are concerned I dislike the topic with a passion, so I won’t go down that route again in a hurry!

[j_uk643]

When all one really wants to talk about is that & 'related' subjects, such that most accounts are skewed or simply falsely presented, it's impossible not to reach that conclusion

[j_uk643]

self-exclusion then.Jolly good

[j_uk643]

Would say half may be being a tad generous there in admission

[fallen-archie]

Yes I would😘

[j_uk643]

crying on the dance floor as the song goes.....apples & trees 

[fallen-archie]

I would like to know where we can magic up the homes for so many people who wish to live in a rich borough like this one! Should compulsory purchase come into play and if so how long will it take and how long to undertake the conversion of said properties to units of multiple occupation, also how do we select which properties warrant C/P , the alternative would be to take a publicly owned green space and build on that, whatever one does it will be opposed by those affected so once again we come back to how long will it take?

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@fallen-archie wrote:
I would like to know where we can magic up the homes for so many people who wish to live in a rich borough like this one! Should compulsory purchase come into play and if so how long will it take and how long to undertake the conversion of said properties to units of multiple occupation, also how do we select which properties warrant C/P , the alternative would be to take a publicly owned green space and build on that, whatever one does it will be opposed by those affected so once again we come back to how long will it take?

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So would I - it’s a difficult problem but one that needs to be solved.

Paying less attention to the problem and the other factors connected to the fire however, (as suggested earlier in the thread), doesn’t strike me as the way to help.

[mustard-tree]

Grenfell tragedy caused a lot of councils to get jumpy.

I live on the top floor of a 9 floor block of flats.
Since Grenfell, our council has been testing the cladding, which I didn't know existed as the outside looks like brickwork.
They are also thinking about installing sprinklers in the flats. We already have smoke detectors and fire alarms.

About 2 years ago, my disabled friend moved into a nice flat, and was told that she could store her mobility scooter outside her front door, as it was not a throughway.  After Grenfell, the rules changed and she was told she had to keep it outside in car park or inside he flat.  For some time she kept it in her passage, but it was difficult to get past it.  Luckily, she now has a 2 bedroom flat in a block with a scooter store.

[fallen-archie]

I support a full and frank study of what went wrong and what we need to do about it and yes if there is evidence of wrongdoing then the police must look into it, I would also like to see those responsible, if it is true, for sub letting to be prosecuted. We also need a clear policy on public housing, how it is funded and in what form the constructions should be.
And finally I am not against migration after all many Brits move abroad to sunnier climbs so what’s good for the goose etc etc, perhaps the best way that I can sum up my own position is to steal the following tweet with which I wholeheartedly agree
Almost no one is against migration. What people want is immigration to be properly managed and at a sustainable level and for those that come to hold similar values on equality, freedom of speech, democracy etc etc.

[joe_bloggs*]

A litany of failings in Grenfell :

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/18/fire-safety-rules-rely-solely-on-staying-put-grenfel...

[upthecreekyetagain]

I fail to see what on Earth immigration policies have to do with the fire at Grenfell Tower.  Astro claimed it was a crucial element in the cause of the fire but has failed to explain how.  

I have to agree with j_uk643 that it seems very odd to bring immigration policies into this particular topic.

[joe_bloggs*]

That also appears to be the MO of those with positions of power,if it looks like they'll be held accountable somewhere down the line,they'll look around for scapegoats,be it the Firemen,immigtants,etc,then smear,smear,smear

[fallen-archie]

I agree with you Joe, accountability is the name of the game and I sincerely hope that Judge Blick gets to the bottom of what took place. The only problem is the fact that many have already made up their minds and if he doesn’t agree with the general conspiritorial theories he will face complaints about being an establishment stooge! How fair is that?

[joe_bloggs*]

no general conspiritorial theories,Had the building not been clad it would not have burned, because concrete is not flammable. The fire spread because the cladding burned. Pure and simple.Nothing to do with the residents Heritage

[mustard-tree]

A possible reason why immigration policies were mentioned is that a lot of the tenants of Grenfell were immigrants.

A tradedy like this could have happened in a block inhabited by English tenants, which is borne out by the fact that nearly all councils are testing all blocks irrespective of who lives there.

[astrologica]

Creeky..I concede that my post was badly phrased, and that immigration and housing was not the direct cause of the fire. But it was probably very relevant to the dreadful loss of life. The population of London is well over 8 million and soaring. It is estimated that within 15 years the number of Londoners born abroad will be over 50%. If there weren't so many people living in London, would there be any need for these Tower blocks? There is a desperate need for housing. This whole planet is overpopulated, and people are crammed together in smaller and smaller living spaces..and accidents will happen. It is madness to keep allowing people to come to live here when housing and other services are so overstretched.

The OP was just a rant about the media and the blanket coverage, but as most of those who lost their lives were indeed immigrants or foreign born, it is not surprising that the two aspects have cropped up.

[astrologica]

It was reported on Saturday that The Fire Service and Paramedics have been accused of racism by Grenfell residents.  Appalling.

[fallen-archie]

Joe you just proved my point! No questions to be answered on where and why it started and why it wasn’t contained within the flat? What efforts were made to put out the fire at source? And so on! Also a number of the flats were in multiple occupancy and regardless of instructions given in respect of fire how many could actually understand what had been written down, because signs would have needed to be in multiple languages, were the residents signed off on the instructions, and what about those who were living there unknown to the local authority?

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@astrologica wrote:

Creeky..I concede that my post was badly phrased, and that immigration and housing was not the direct cause of the fire. But it was probably very relevant to the dreadful loss of life. The population of London is well over 8 million and soaring. It is estimated that within 15 years the number of Londoners born abroad will be over 50%. If there weren't so many people living in London, would there be any need for these Tower blocks? There is a desperate need for housing. This whole planet is overpopulated, and people are crammed together in smaller and smaller living spaces..and accidents will happen. It is madness to keep allowing people to come to live here when housing and other services are so overstretched.

The OP was just a rant about the media and the blanket coverage, but as most of those who lost their lives were indeed immigrants or foreign born, it is not surprising that the two aspects have cropped up.

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The population of Inner London, and indeed London as a whole, (inner and outer), fell every year until the mid 1990s - and is still lower than it was in 1940.