For me this is the best strapline I have seen for a while

[fallen-archie]

In a bold move commensurate with someone far taller The Ginger Dwarf from the north has declared there will be a Second once-in-a-lifetime referendum.

You couldn't make it up could you?

[fallen-archie]

What is your prognosis based upon, surely we are all living in a soveregn state which serves all it's people and if anything because of evolution scots and welsh pelple have far more control over there lives than the english do, To use brexit as a reason to quit the union is hypocritical and will lessen the role of wht scots can influence not increase it.

[upthecreekyetagain]

I suggested that would be their argument - if you believe that Scotland is a nation then the Act of Union which ceded sovereignty to England was a betrayal of that belief.  Looking from that point of view then Scotland as part of the UK has far fewer sovereign powers than it would as an independent country yet member of the EU.

[joe_bloggs*]

I think some people forget or don't know that the opportunity for a second referendum was written into the SNP’s manifesto, it explains that if any major changes occur (and Brexit is a huge change) then a second referendum could be called,and as far as "once in a lifetime" quote gets mentioned,most people appear to forget the cast iron promises made by the 3 main parties!

[fallen-archie]

Well that explains it all! So it's once in a lifetime of a gnat ? Brexit is something we all voted on and like it or not we are coming out! I actually voted remain but that's democracy for you! You win some you lose some, so instead of all of us doubters becoming opportunists why don't we get together and make it work, it is after all the will of the people.

[upthecreekyetagain]

"Will of the People" - Which people" - not the will of the Scots, nor the will of Londoners, nor the will of the Irish and so on - Brexit was the will of a small majority of the people in June 2016.  There was nothing sacrosanct about the decision made on that day.  Too many people are treating the result like that of a cup final with two sets of fans supporting either winners or losers.

The whole point of Democracy is that people can and do change their mind over very short periods.

[upthecreekyetagain]

I don't remember those in support of a Brexit result shouting down Nigel Farage when he made the following comment just prior to the referendum -

“In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

[al**bear]

Listening to Wee Nippy Yesterday

Was I the only person who thought,

looks like She's read ALs post on the RT

She covered all my points

[fallen-archie]

TBH Al I try not to watch her, or salmond or Robertson they are all gut wrenchingly vile in my opinion, power obsessed and in need of sectioning, They stir up tensions within communities which are devisive and as for the cyber nats that hang on their every word they are so ultra critical of anyone who questions their motives or beliefs you feel bullied by them, That is not the way to influence people in my opinion and there is no place for this type of behaviour in a democratic society. One question I would ask is How much will a second referendum campaign cost and who will pay for it, I know the swiss have referendums on a regular basis but I am not aware of them repeating them until a point is reached where the result is acceptable to a particular movement.  

[cee-dee]

She's keen to do it at the earliest opportunity before those voting for a split lose faith in the idea and think better of it. She thinks now is the time, later, she knows she'd lose.

[upthecreekyetagain]

So if there was a referendum now and the vote went for 'leave' would that be the 'will of the people' or if the vote was held a couple of years later and the vote went to 'remain' would that be the 'will of the people'?

That's the problem with referendums unlike votes in Parliament - they leave no room for second thoughts.

Regarding the EU one for instance - irrespective of the deal we manage to get with our current largest trading partner, or anything else that might happen in the next two years, we are committed to leaving.

[evoman3957]

No, it's the EU that call it " LEAVING ".......we just use the vernacular, because that's the way THEY regard it.  From OUR point of view ( me in particular ) I voted to leave, because I want to be in control of my OWN boarders, make my OWN laws and determine my OWN destiny.  I would have been quite happy to do that, while remaining close allies and friends with the rest of the EU.  Of course it's ALL or NOTHING with them, you're either in their " Mafia " style club.........their monopoly......or your not.  Oh no, THEY can't talk in terms of reason; of letting ANYBODY have any independence, outside of their federal / mafia club. The European mentality of ALL or NOTHING........the mentality that started the last two World Wars, hasn't changed one iota.  It's THEM who export the mentality of " it's our way or the highway ".......no half measures and if you want to leave, we'll make you pay. Just because they've created a large trading block, in effect; getting everybody hooked on their man made Drug / monopoly, it doesn't mean those that don't want to live under their control, should have to.......or be so scared and gutless as to have lost all their self confidence and think they can't survive without them. I'm sick of the Gutless Scum this country has become, the gradual " Drip, Drip " erosion; that has worked so well on so many.........thank god, those that died for this spineless country and its people; can't see what it has become.

[upthecreekyetagain]

Do you REALLY think you will be in control of our borders, make your own laws and determine your own destiny just because we're leaving the EU.

If you think any of the above are attainable within our current party political system then you are living in cloud cuckoo land!

[evoman3957]

..........and you've got so used to eating S***, that you don't know the difference any more..........in fact you've grown to like the taste.......rather sad if you ask me.

[evoman3957]

If I need to fight my OWN political system, because it doesn't give me what I want..........at least we ( the british people ) have the right and the chance to change it..........fighting the EU and it's system, with 27 other countries in the mix.......we've got NO chance.

[upthecreekyetagain]

As I said, "living in cloud cuckoo land".

Sad.

[evoman3957]

There's none so blind as those that cannot see, especially the opinionated ones; who think they've got all the answers.

[evoman3957]

.............and try to use descriptive expressions of your own, at least it would show some degree of individuality.

[upthecreekyetagain]

What is the answer?

i wonder how many millions live in constituencies where no matter how they vote it will not change who gets elected?

I've missed one vote in over 40 years of living in the same constituency - not once has my vote made the slightest difference to the outcome.  Even those who voted for the winning candidate had absolutely no say in who that candidate would be.

The idea that we have any say in how this country is run, in or out of the EU, really is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Those who voted to leave based on immigration had a 'good' reason to do so because the odds were that a 'leave' result would change the countries immigration policy.  Likewise those that voted remain based on trade with EU

Those voting either way based on 'sovereignty' and 'spending' issues are kidding themselves - the common man never has had and never will have a real say in what laws are passed, never has had a real say in fiscal policy, health policies, education policies, the penal system etc.  This can't change whilst we have a party system.

So yes it is sad to see so many scared of the big bad wolf EU and yet they don't even recognise that they are living in the wolves lair.  After both world wars promises were made by the politicians that had caused the conflicts in the first place - promises needless to say that have come to nothing.

[celticthebhoys585]

Are you a real person? Do you live in a commune thinghy in Wales or sumit?

I tend to find the people with these sort of views have never past the dover straits, never past Hadrians wall and have no real say in any politics in this country.

I'm no believer in UK -everyone knows that ,but you my friend haven't a scooby doo about life and should shelter in that mud hut in deeper DARK Wales and STFU.

You call people spineless you mess- I've been in places that'd make billygoats puke! Never seen you there!

Don't ever think you know how people feel.  

[fallen-archie]

Would you or someone else kindly translate the previous post for me😃