Electric cars?

[cee-dee]

Have you got one? A hybrid or fully electric?

It's said that the sale of new petrol or diesel cars will be "banned" by 2030. Is that realistic?

What are the practicalities of such vehicles? Some straightforward electric cars look like glorified bubble cars! The range of the electric cars isn't that great for a long journey. "Bigger" cars seem no better? I was looking at a Mecedes, fully electric, range about 290 miles. That all? And the cost? Over £70k.  U muz b jokin?

A lot of them have a projected range but it's followed by an asterisk. Same with the re-charging time, 20 minutes? That's followed by another asterisk. It's "all depending" on this that or the other?

How long do those batteries last before they need re-placing and at what cost? Do the batteries need completely exhausting before you re-charge them?

I suppose for running round a city they're OK but for most mortals living away from a large conurbation, they're impractical really?

They say the move to electric is to "improve, reduce or eliminate" emissions and improve the environment? OK, so where does that leave the manufacture of the batteries and the re-cycling of exhaused ones? Won't that also have an environmental impact? 

So the sale of new diesel & petrol cars is to be banned after 2030 but what's to stop manufacturers or retailers registering new vehicles before the ban date and then continuing to sell them? They won't be "new" but they are "new"???? Will there be some crafty move to prevent that dodge?

It's about time some bright spark invented an engine that runs on water which is, after all Hydrogen and Oxygen. The engine would separate the Hydrogen for powering a vehicle and the excess Oxygen would be released to the atmosphere. I suppose if that happened there would be a Law introduced that you could only use "Government Water" which carries a tax 

[upthecreekyetagain]

How many journeys over 290 miles do you do in a year?

Don't think I've done one that long in the last 5 years.

[cee-dee]

You're right about that on a personal level but other people make long journeys and it's not just the point-to-point distance it's whether there's charging points available. Many of the all-electric cars don't even have a quoted range of that distance!

With a conventionally fuelled car you can take an "emergency" can of fuel with you. How'd you take a can of electricity?

Also, don't forget that the quoted range is "under ideal conditions" which can mean anything? When I've seen test reports they've never managed to get the supposed range.

[margaret*e]

I've just been watching a clip about the electric cars.

A few snags on a long journey.

Charging for people who live in remote country places for one don't always have access to them.

long journeys are the next one.

last year we drove over 400 miles to the middle of nowhere in the Highlands, as CD said we always have spare fuel, that wouldn't happen with an electric car.

what happens if you break down in a remote area, or even a busy area where you would be blocking other traffic?.

[cee-dee]

It'd be no use walking to the nearest garage for a can of electricity? 

[upthecreekyetagain]

As long as you have an electricity supply to your home then it really doesn't matter how rural your location - you can have a charge point installed for a one off cost of less than £500.  It will probably be more difficult for those living in urban areas to charge their vehicles, especially those who regularly park their vehicles on the road rather than a driveway and/or those living in flats.

Connecting to the charger each evening will not only mean that the batteries are fully charged in the morning but also means the electricity costs will be lower.

It is reasonable to assume that by 2030 all garages will have multiple fast chargers installed - the current cost of these is very reasonable, less than £15 for enough charge for most electric vehicles to travel 200 miles.

For those who do regular long journeys then they will still be able to buy hybrid electric cars.  

I am seriously considering buying an EV next year having seen how much lower the running costs are - on average I'm doing about 10,000 miles a year which in my current vehicle is costing me around £1,500 - compared to the £750 it would cost if always charged at a garage or less than £400 if charged at home there is an obvious saving.  More than enough to hire a hybrid car for the very occasional long journeys I might want to make. 

The major disadvantage that I see with EVs is the high initial purchase cost of the vehicle - even with government subsidies they are significantly more expensive than the equivalent petrol vehicle.  This differential is likely to change though as the number of petrol vehicles manufactured reduces and the number of EVs increases. 

[margaret*e]

I would imagine that once they're compulsory they won't be so cheap to run.

Another point was that it takes a while to charge, goes to 80% pretty quickly then slows down, how long would you need to sit waiting for it to charge.

He also said if the charging station or whatever they call it is occupied you have to wait for the previous customer to finish.(

[cee-dee]

I'm just looking at the costs involved in a small EV, a Nissan Leaf.

Battery replacement cost is £4,920 with £1000 back for your old battery. The battery has a five year or 60,000 mile guarantee.

A more comfortable car with a larger battery costs considerably more, I've seen up to £10,000 quoted.

Also, this fast charging lark isn't so fast. Some are quoted as taking an hour to get up to 80% charged.

Also, only "some" hybrids will be allowed to be sold until 2035.

[upthecreekyetagain]

I don't see how they could make them much more expensive to run as the fuel is electricity.

Most batteries are the same, quick to charge the first 80% - which is what most will take advantage of.

Electric motor technology is advancing rapidly, as are batteries - 10 years ago EVs had an average range of less than 100 miles.  Who's to say what it will be in 10 years time.  The demand for EVs will certainly drive improvements in both vehicles and infrastructure. 

Of course you would have to wait for a charging point to be free in the same way as you do for a petrol pump but charging points are far cheaper to install than pumps and large storage tanks.  A lot of the base infrastructure is already there with electricity supply cables going to millions of lamp posts.  There simply won't be the need for refuelling stations as there is for petrol and diesel vehicles. 

[cee-dee]

A car takes up the same space whether it's LPG, Petrol, Diesel or Electric. The first three are refuelled in a short space of time but that's not so for Electric. That means there's more occupied spaces? However, I can see less need for "Recharging Stations" (as against petrol stations) as such because there ought to be many more places from which to charge an EV.

I don't see any progression towards making the roof, bonnet or boot from solar panels or incorporating air ducts to drive some sort of fan(s) to help keep the batteries charged?

Batteries don't last forever and sometimes an ageing  battery can be fine today but dead tomorrow so the EV batteries should have some sort of warning of imminent failure?

[cee-dee]

Some interesting findings here:-

https://news.sky.com/story/electric-cars-all-you-need-to-know-about-the-future-of-motoring-11757459

[cee-dee]

Some more interesting points here:-

How electric cars are charged and how far they go: your questions answered - BBC News

[upthecreekyetagain]

It looks as though battery technology continues to advance:-

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/19/electric-car-batteries-race-ahead-with-five-minu...

The batteries can be fully charged in five minutes but this would require much higher-powered chargers than used today. Using available charging infrastructure, StoreDot is aiming to deliver 100 miles of charge to a car battery in five minutes in 2025.

[cee-dee]

In 2025???? They're "aiming", doesn't mean they'll be able to do it?

[fallen-archie]

Whatever happened to our can do attitude? Everything new costs money, and then goes down once established, So why are you so negative on this subject? Surely it is a case of what does the future hold, and how can we reduce the emissions without trying something different? I will go electric next time because it is good for the environment and I no longer do the kind of mileage I once did. But even those who do massive mileage should stop and try using zoom or other forms of conferencing apps and stop all the unnecessary fannying around everywhere in their company cars. And of course those of us who drive for no specific reason other than because we can! So let us embrace this new technology and prepare for a greener future along with a reduction in our ever growing population.

[cee-dee]

Electric cars in current times are "new". Ah, now then, think back? Go back to the early days of cars? Just imagine trying to shove people in to using cars instead of horses? The cars then were.... shall I say a bit primitive and a bit unreliable? They made haste slowly?

The same goes for aircraft? Much air travel was "a bit primitive" in the early days? They also made haste slowly?

The push to impractical electric cars is being done with inordinate haste!

As to "the environment", just how much impact does the making of the "new batteries" etc plus the actual electricity generation make on the environment? OK, so loads of coal-fired power stations have been decommissioned but how many are natural gas? What about the impact the huge, horrible looking, bulgy and bulky 4 x 4s have on th environment? There's no real need for them?

While we're on the subject of reducing the impact vehicles make, has no-one considered the impact closing all the village schools has made by transporting all the kids miles endways to large schools in towns?

REAL progress would be water powered cars. Water is Hydrogen and Oxygen so develop practical water engines eh? Although I've said it before, can't you just see that if practical water engines were developed, there'd soon be some law or other making sure people couldn't use any old water, it'd have to be "Government Water" ie taxed!

[upthecreekyetagain]

Electric cars were first manufactured at the end of the 19th century.

It's not the cars that have been developing over the last 50 years or so that now makes them a viable option but batteries.  Vast amounts of money and resources have been consumed in their development- anyone who used batteries in the 50s and 60s will be well aware of how they have improved over the years and continue to do so.

[cee-dee]

Yes. I know and they didn't take off then either.

As with lots of "new" technology, vast strides of improvement take place early on, then it slows. That's evident in many fields not just batteries. They've a long way to go.

[lambsy_uk]

100 miles of range is absolutely useless, even 300 wouldn’t meet needs!

[bankhaunter]

Using fans to help charge the batteries won't work, it would take more battery power to produce the air flow than the electricity generated.

As for speed of development, I would suggest demand and profit were a massive incentive.