Brexit never gonnae happen they way you think!

[celticthebhoys585]

Never in a way you brexiters thought it would. All the chamelons have been exposed,tight majority vote.Country and goverment in chaos.

It's the money men that will decide as always! What made you think they'd let the people decide-never have done in centuries!

[celticthebhoys585]

Bye now-see you in another 6 months!

[al**bear]

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@mikes*corvettes wrote:

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I don't remember people starving or with no clothes on their backs pre 1975.

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You must have led a sheltered life, I saw these things in Glasgow, Dundee, Leith (Edinburgh) up here

But I visited Newcastle in 68 and there were People begging on the streets, I had never seen that in Scotland

I was also in Birmingham and was shocked by what  I saw in some areas in the early 70s

But the Poverty I saw in areas of the East End of London in the mid 70s was shocking, every bit as bad as the worse I'd seen in the Glasgow slums of the 60s. btw I am not talking about the homeless here.

As the 70s moved on things got better for the Poorest, then the Witch of Grantham arrived and wiped away all the progress that had been made for the less well off, the same people who have been getting ground down ever since (including under Tony BLiar)

[theelench]

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@al**bear wrote:

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But the Poverty I saw in areas of the East End of London in the mid 70s was shocking, every bit as bad as the worse I'd seen in the Glasgow slums of the 60s. btw I am not talking about the homeless here.

As the 70s moved on things got better for the Poorest, then the Witch of Grantham arrived and wiped away all the progress that had been made for the less well off, the same people who have been getting ground down ever since (including under Tony BLiar)

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I agree, my first job in 1969 was in a Labour Exchange in East London.  Having been brought up in the South London suburbs I was truely shocked by the poverty I saw, it was Dickensian.  Blair did say at some point that he was the "Son of Thatcher".

Back to Brexit.  I said somewhere back in this thread that the referendum result was as much a call for change by the ordinary people, fed up with the virtual one party state we have become.  They refused for once to vote as the main parties wanted.

Mrs May seems to have recognised that I think.  As the foot draggers try to delay or impede Brexit they are moving the process nearer to the next general election.   With the amount of anger and frustration felt by the electorate and focused on Brexit that election may well be another suprise result for the Westminster politicians.  The make up of the next parliament could be very interesting I think.

[aand2136-voqfz8yx]

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@theelench wrote:

With the amount of anger and frustration felt by the electorate and focused on Brexit that election may well be another suprise result for the Westminster politicians.  The make up of the next parliament could be very interesting I think.

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This is interesting. Would you be able to expand on it? What do you think the make up of the next parliament could be like?

Please feel free to tell me you'd rather keep it to yourself if you wish

Thanks in advance

[mikes*corvettes]

Nope, I'm firmly from working class stock and have lived in London all of my life and have never seen or heard of the hardship you say happening in the east end.

In 1965 my parents bought their first house in London for £4,500 and out of the £7 a week my father was earning as a chef and the £5 a week my mother was earning as a seamstress and taking into account they were paying rent at the time and raising two children still managed to save £1,500 to put down as a deposit.

That's a third of a price of a house in London.

Now fast forward to the present day after we joined this nonsense which was then called the common market.

Due to the influx of migrants/refugees/immigrants call them what you like because there is not enough houses to go round the house prices are at a premium.

With the average house in London now worth around £750k how many first time buyers do you think can cobble together the same third deposit of £250k.

It's funny that you mention that things started to dip after the mid 70's and carried on dipping ever since, which coincides with when joined all this nonsense.

[evoman3957]

What I find so depressing, is how stupid, naive and gullible people have become; whatever happened to being street wise and having a natural survival instinct, God knows. People think walls are for keeping people out, is doesn't even dawn on them that they're equally effective for keeping people IN !!  We didn't just join the common market, later to become the EU, we were drawn deeper and deeper into an ever increasing and convoluted web; designed to make getting out as hard as possible.......if not impossible. Supposedly educate people fell for that.......MUGS........and now it's created a breed, that can't live without it ; EU junkies who haven't thought for themselves for so long, that the very thought of having to do so; scares the living **** out of them. What a truly pathetic country this has become.

[astrologica]

EU junkies.....that's a very good description of the way this country has come to depend on the EU, Evo. Our 'Masters' in Brussels dole out occasional 'fixes' of money to selected areas...usually very poor areas. They dictate when and how often we get our fixes and the precise dose. These areas become so dependent on these fixes, but when you look hard at the effects they have, you can see that there is no long term improvement...they are just sticking plasters. Wales has been receiving fixes from Brussels for years, but they have had no effect whatsoever. The only people who benefit are the EU puppets in the Welsh Assembly, who absolutely love their masters in Brussels. Since the referendum vote to leave the EU in June, the look of panic and bewilderment on Carwyn Jones' face is pitiful to see. But the people of Wales woke up a long time ago, and realised that we were being thrown scraps to keep us quiet, hence the overwhelming vote to leave from the people in Wales. 

[theelench]

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@astrologica wrote:

EU junkies.....that's a very good description of the way this country has come to depend on the EU, Evo. Our 'Masters' in Brussels dole out occasional 'fixes' of money to selected areas...usually very poor areas. They dictate when and how often we get our fixes and the precise dose. These areas become so dependent on these fixes, but when you look hard at the effects they have, you can see that there is no long term improvement...they are just sticking plasters. Wales has been receiving fixes from Brussels for years, but they have had no effect whatsoever. The only people who benefit are the EU puppets in the Welsh Assembly, who absolutely love their masters in Brussels. Since the referendum vote to leave the EU in June, the look of panic and bewilderment on Carwyn Jones' face is pitiful to see. But the people of Wales woke up a long time ago, and realised that we were being thrown scraps to keep us quiet, hence the overwhelming vote to leave from the people in Wales. 

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And in reply to Evoman.

This is just as true of the UK before we joined the EU which has exacerbated the process.  Before the last war most people lived their whole lives without having much direct contact with the govt..  Since then govt. has blossomed until it encroaches on every aspect of life.  With red-tape and taxes it has destroyed initiative, self-reliance, the will and ability to do anything without bureaucratic intervention.

The seaside town I live in was created as a resort by local families producing attractions people wanted to use, it prospered.  The tiny borough council had very little to do with it.

Now we have a town council, a district council, a county council, various quangos, Westminster and the EU to support.  All sucking the blood out of this area and every other community in the country.   Nothing is done, or can be done without their say-so.  If someone wants to start a project or revive an old attraction the first thing they do is apply for a grant.  It's the only way to get approval and the money to carry it through.  You either embrace the red-tape or it will be used to strangle you.

Everyone has become used to the idea that they are taxed into near poverty and rely one way or another on govt. doling out dribs and drabs as benefits, grants or subsidies from what's left over after they have looked after themselves.

[theelench]

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@aand2136-voqfz8yx wrote:

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@theelench wrote:

With the amount of anger and frustration felt by the electorate and focused on Brexit that election may well be another suprise result for the Westminster politicians.  The make up of the next parliament could be very interesting I think.

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This is interesting. Would you be able to expand on it? What do you think the make up of the next parliament could be like?

Please feel free to tell me you'd rather keep it to yourself if you wish

Thanks in advance

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Neither of the main Westminster parties supported a leave vote and IMO were relying on dyed in the wool tribal voting to result in a NO vote.  The fear campaign was aimed at the waverers.

Most parliamentary seats are safe and so can safely be ignored at elections.  The campaigns are aimed at the marginals.

The dyed in the wool supporters of both main parties have at long last said "No" and been listened to for once.  They may well have learned the lesson.  Coupled with the dissatisfaction with politicians in general and disgust at the campaigns of both sides I think quite a few safe seats might well become rather less safe than usual.  Especially for foot draggers of either party

[aand2136-voqfz8yx]

Cheers for this. You could be right. The fear campaign was a disgrace, especially Osbourne's threat of an emergency budget.

All I see at the moment are, the Conservatives don't know what they're doing, Labour are in disarray, Liberals - well who are they, UKIP have imploded and SNP are too much one policy party. There are smaller parties, such as the DUP, Plaid Cymru, Greens, but absolute power won't lie there.

The High Court decision yesterday may result in an early election. so who do you vote for, those who don't know which door to open, those who don't know whether to walk into the room or those who can't even find the building

[al**bear]

What goes round comes round

So the Witch is visiting India, but loads of Indian politicians are not happy with the past 6 years of restrictions on UK visits, caused by the Government pandering to UKIP and the loons in her own party over Visas for Indians

This is what is going to happen, all over the World when We try to make trade deals, after Brexit

The markets we had have moved on, the enemies we have made, have long memories

[lambsy_uk]

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@celticthebhoys585 wrote:

Never in a way you brexiters thought it would. All the chamelons have been exposed,tight majority vote.Country and goverment in chaos.

It's the money men that will decide as always! What made you think they'd let the people decide-never have done in centuries!

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Please God don't let the people decide; recipe for disaster! We have representative government for good reason, just a shame Cameron forgot this and fecked up big time! 

[astrologica]

'Representative ' being the very important word there! MPs are there to represent their constituents. Any MP whose constituents voted with a majority to leave has a duty to carry out their wishes. 'A recipe for disaster '?.... I find that quite insulting...inferring that we the people can't be trusted to know what is good for us? I would trust the people of this country any time, rather than the self-serving people who would like to make our decisions for us.

[lambsy_uk]

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@astrologica wrote:

'Representative ' being the very important word there! MPs are there to represent their constituents. Any MP whose constituents voted with a majority to leave has a duty to carry out their wishes. 'A recipe for disaster '?.... I find that quite insulting...inferring that we the people can't be trusted to know what is good for us? I would trust the people of this country any time, rather than the self-serving people who would like to make our decisions for us.

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Insulting indeed! I am not merely infering that the people can't be trusted I am stating that I truly believe they shouldn't be trusted! I don't trust my fellow citizens whatsoever!

[joe_bloggs*]

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@celticthebhoys585 wrote:

Never in a way you brexiters thought it would. All the chamelons have been exposed,tight majority vote.Country and goverment in chaos.

It's the money men that will decide as always! What made you think they'd let the people decide-never have done in centuries!

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I think you are correct,and the same will happen in the USA,Trump will not be allowed to win,due to the influence and power of the money men

[celticthebhoys585]

oops

[joe_bloggs*]

[al**bear]

ooooops

One New story says Boris is off His head and making things up as he goes round trying to big up Brexit. Real experts say He has no real understanding on How the actual Diplomatic World works and has even less understanding of the realpolitik of the workings of the EU

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Another story the Brexiteers Hid from the Referendum campaign, and when people brought it up, screamed Scaremongering

UK faces Brexit bill of up to €60bn as Brussels toughens stance

EU negotiators to prioritise divorce-first and play down trade deal

https://www.ft.com/content/480b4ae0-aa9e-11e6-9cb3-bb8207902122

[cee-dee]

That link's coming up as "subscribe to read".

All these pontificators are working to suit their own agenda and most of it is pure speculation.

[astrologica]

'Well..they would say that, wouldn't they'! 😀