Ban on new Petrol/diesel cars?

[cee-dee]

The ban on the sales of new Petrol, Diesel or hybrid cars is to be brought forward to 2035 from 2040.

What's your take on that?

How long do the batteries for electric cars last, how much is a replacement and how are they produced and what with? Doesn't the constituents, manufacture and disposal of them have an evironmental impact? Are they expecting all the electricity to be generated from wind/water/nuclear sources by then?

[theelench]

Judging solely by the shock I got recently, when checking out the price of a new hoover, it could cause riots in the streets.

My old plug-in-the-wall one cost about £50, if I remember correctly.  A new battery one, four times as much.  I've seen one ad. on TV for a hoover with "A massive" four hours running time and if the batteries deteriorate anything like as quickly as those in my camera or e-cig, they probably don't last very long. 

[**bustysinclaire**]

I can think the want to do it is very commendable, certainly a step in the right direction, we have a great duty of care towards our planet and the environment but what good is the odd country here and there trying their best. It is a world wide necessity.

The questions you raise ceedee are very important questions that have to be addressed and in my opinion should be answered and solved before it is implemented. The problem is man hasn't got the ability to see far enough into the future to know if their calculations and plans for such can be of any permanent benifit. We have no way of knowing if it will reverse all the damage that has been done by pollution.

We should be doing everything we can to look after our home, but it is also  my opinion that it is too little far too late, there are far more beneficial plans that have been set in place that will most definitely solve all the damage that mankind has done to this beautiful planet. It will take years of hard work to clean away the damage mankind has done and restore restore it but it wiil be a true paradise that we can all enjoy in perfect worry free,  clean atmospheric conditions.

[upthecreekyetagain]

There is no reason why most of the electricity we use can't come from renewable sources - the development of Tesla storage systems are moving on a pace as are car batteries - the latest 'super chargers' can charge at a rate of about 15 miles a minute - I expect this will be developed quite a lot over the next 15 years.  I'm sure it won't be long before we see electric 'pumps'  at service stations.

Currently most electric car batteries are warrantied for 8 years or 100,000 miles, much longer than a mechanical engine.  The RAC suggest that the batteries in a well maintained vehicle will last for 150,000 miles before starting to lose capacity.

VW reckon that over 95% of used battery materials can be recycled in the production of new batteries which will dramatically reduce the environmental cost.

15 years is a long time when it comes to technological developments.

[suzieseaside]

They will have to increase mileage per charge very significantly by then (likely I suppose) plus have a lot of charging stations that charge batteries very quickly.
A huge proportion of the population doesn't have the luxury of driveways to charge their vehicles from home. Either that or the batteries will have to be light and easily removable to carry home.

[suzieseaside]

Portable batteries seem highly unlikely.
Currently auto electric batteries weigh about 230kg (apparently) and a 50kWh one 380-600kg.
So, will every street where people have to park have plenty of charging points?

[**bustysinclaire**]

As creeky says 15 years is a long time when it comes to technological developments.
Take mobile phones, they were like bricks when first out now look at them.

We already have hundreds of recharges me battery powered items, it won't be that long before the battery for cars need is solved.

[**bustysinclaire**]

Rechargeable batteries 😂

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@suzieseaside wrote:
Portable batteries seem highly unlikely.
Currently auto electric batteries weigh about 230kg (apparently) and a 50kWh one 380-600kg.
So, will every street where people have to park have plenty of charging points?

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So why would you need charging points on every street?  We don't have petrol points.

With fast charging batteries you'd simply go to the nearest filling station and plug in. 

[suzieseaside]

If fast charging perhaps, but anyway would there be enough charging points in a filling station - a sizeable town may only have one filling station?

[suzieseaside]

What would you consider fast charging?

Anyway I imagine there will have to be lots of charging stations installed once fuel is phased out.

[cee-dee]

Hmmmmm, lots of good points made but...... now then.... throw Hydrogen powered cars in to the mix eh?

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@suzieseaside wrote:
What would you consider fast charging?

Anyway I imagine there will have to be lots of charging stations installed once fuel is phased out.

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Double the current maximum rate should be achievable - 30 miles a min would mean 10 minutes for a 300 mile charge.

There won't be much demand for petrol or diesel so petrol stations could become charging stations - you would be able to get at least 2 charge points for every current pump as the forecourt would essentially be a car park with a charger in each space.

[cee-dee]

There's also a move to end/remove gas central heating so I suppose LPG vehicles will also be under fire?

[suzieseaside]

I have just read (BBC news item on my phone) that it has been estimated that the UK will need 25 million charging points.

In 2017 the UK had 8,400 petrol stations.
BIG difference.

Given that people will still be able to drive second hand petrol vehicles, at least one fuel pump will be needed at petrol stations, for a while anyway, unless people are forced to give up their vehicles before they are unroadworthy.

Anyway, I don't know, just posting some thoughts about how it would work for all vehicle owners.
But it seems to me that unless there are a large number of charging points, owning an electric car will be a lot easier for the better off who have driveways and parking than for people living in flats or terrace houses on the street who cannot park near their home.

[suzieseaside]

I don't know about LPG ceedee. They are cleaner than petrol or diesel but don't seem to be very popular

[theelench]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

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@suzieseaside wrote:
What would you consider fast charging?

Anyway I imagine there will have to be lots of charging stations installed once fuel is phased out.

---

Double the current maximum rate should be achievable - 30 miles a min would mean 10 minutes for a 300 mile charge.

There won't be much demand for petrol or diesel so petrol stations could become charging stations - you would be able to get at least 2 charge points for every current pump as the forecourt would essentially be a car park with a charger in each space.

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You mention petrol stations becoming charging stations with car parking spaces.  My local Sainsbury's seems to be looking at it the other way around.

They already have a row of charging points in the main car-park, nowhere near the petrol station but next to the store.

Does that mean that as demand grows they will extend the cables to the next row, then the next.  Eventually the whole car-park will be a charging station.

Perhaps the intended solution is that every large car-park, retail, municipal, hospital, air-port, or sports facility (to mention a few) will become charging stations.  It would perhaps solve the problem without digging up every road to lay cables.  Or paving over more of the country to build new charging stations.

[cee-dee]

So, if there's charging stations all over the place, how would people pay for it?

[**bustysinclaire**]

I would assume that the points at some service stations etc, are already metered pay at the pump type points so why not just extend that service. After all electricity is still a metered commodity in the home and work places. It can't be much of a problem just to extend that to pay as you go else where.

[suzieseaside]

With their phones perhaps, like Just Park works now.

There's going to be a load of road and car park digging to lay cables if 25 million charging points is the aim!