Another for Astro.

[cee-dee]

Astro wanted a thread so people could argue. So far there's not been much argument on the first one so is that because of the sometimes difficulty signing in or have all the argumentative type's gone?

Anyway, anyone wanna argue about builders? Are there any builders on here? If so, can you come up with a good argument as to why so many do as below?

Some weeks ago, scaffolding went up outside a semi-detatched cottage because the roof needs re-doing, the slates are slipping (nails rusted?).

There was no action for weeks after the scaffolding went up until finally some blokes turned up in a signwritten van proclaiming to be "Traditional Builders". So, they took off all the slates and I can see they're piled up on the scaffolding. After the first day the slates were all off and the original laths were visible (no plastic sheets/insulation there). I was thinking "hope it doesn't rain".

Next day, the old laths were gone and plastic sheeting was evident held down by (what looks like) wide-spaced temporary laths (the plastic to keep any rain out). After that, I could hear some work going on around the back of the roof but late last week, no sign of them or this week.

Now, can any builder tell me why the motto of such traditional builders is "We do a bit then leave a lot and clear off to another job"?????? 

[1956glyn]

Ha ha i could write a book on this thread ....we had a full reroof down to the gutters a couple of years ago

Plus this year we had to have major structural work done to our house due to a botch job.....we had to move out in July for 4 weeks for the structural engineers to recify problems 

double_o_heaven dont think anyone would have the time to read all our problems with builders etc ??? lol 

[1956glyn]

Depending on what Covid tier you are in maybe the roofers have had to stop work? 

[astrologica]

Same next door but one to me. The neighbours said that the builders take on too many jobs, because they don't want to turn work down. So they flit from one job to another, trying to keep everyone happy. But no one is happy if it's raining and there's no tiles on the roof!

[1956glyn]

So far as our roof was concerned i must admit they did a brilliant job and at any one time there were 8 roofers on our house.

Fortunately we had good weather and not once did they disappear.   Saying that they were not the cheapest.

The structural damage was  a totally different matter caused by a Window company who cut into concrete lintels when replacing windows and basically they all collapsed   ..........

[theelench]

I've never been a builder but have been self-employed as a gardener for the past thirty years.  When I started I had cards printed with "Landscaping and Maintenance" on them.  I even did a few landscaping contracts, with a few regular maintenence jobs to fill in.  However, it didn't take long to sink-in that it's far less complicated and provides a more regular income to build up the maintenance  side and only take on landscaping as "week-end" work.

For builders it's often even worse, they can't build up a regular client base to "fill in", but mostly have one "skill" (roofer, bricklayer, plumber), a working knowledge of some aspects of another and if they can't get work as either of those, have to fill-in as unskilled labour.

I got to know a local builder and spoke to him for years in my local.  I even did a few "reinstatement" jobs for him" and "the do a bit and then clear off for a week" was his biggest nightmare.  Over the years, several times, he stopped taking on work and accepted the loss in his income suffering from a sort of burn-out trying to keep several projects moving forward at the same time.

The whole industry relies on "day labour" as no "traditional builder" can take-on full time employees in the hope that they will have enough work to keep them employed in a market that is totally erratic.

Your "Traditional Builders" might be made up a skilled brick-layer and a qualified electrician (who both double as labourers for each other). The qualified roofer might have been "bought-in" and the other two were then acting as his labourers for that job.  Add to that, that they are all self-employed and the roofer might well be tendering for his own work.  With "day-work" there is no guarantee that he will be there beyond the number of days he was given to understand he would be paid for.

The electrician (accepting labourers pay of £75? a day) might get a "quick" re-wiring job (at £150? a day) so take two or three days off.  The stories I heard of how what should have been a simple job turning into a nightmare would fill a book.

The real "Tradition" in the building industry is "Chaos" held together by people who, as well as doing a days work as a builder, somehow (mostly) also manage to get the right number of people on the roof.  With the right equipment and materials all together on the same day 

[1956glyn]

Maybe therein lies the difference.     Our roofing company actually employed all the roofers themselves and they were not subbies.   I did ask.

2 others in my road employed them after seeing the great job they did on our house  🙂

A few more do need replacing as our houses are nearly 100 years old. 

I was a little bit concerned recently because the structural engineers did have to prop up the roof by a few inches to repair structural damage.    Thankfully everything was ok.

[cee-dee]

I don't buy that argument. The jobs take the same amount of time to do whether they're done in one uninterrupted job or a-bit-here-and-a-bit-there.

In actual fact, jobs would probably get completed quicker if they stuck to one job from start to finish!

I've seen blokes doing a roof in one uninterrupted job and it was really surprising how quick and organised it was.

[cee-dee]

Still no sign of any more work on that roof but in complete contrast I see another bunch of chaps are hard at work re-doing a driveway only 50 yards away from the roofing job.

Rain or no rain, the driveway has been dug up ready for whatever's going down in its place. The blokes laughed when I said the roofing lot are traditional builders who do a bit and leave a lot.

I've just thought, I wonder if those roofers are that well-known firm called Bodgit & Scarper? 

[1956glyn]

I wonder if the roofers were paid in full before they started the job......bad mistake

We paid 25% for materials and then the rest upon completion of the job 

[cee-dee]

Well now, the roofers finally returned yesterday and the nailed laths in their proper positions and also stacked piles of slates ready for re-fixing.

Today? No sign of them. They're keeping up with the tradition of doing a bit and leaving a lot.

[cee-dee]

It was very foggy earlier but it began lifting and now the Sun's coming out but although it's a good day for roofing, there's no sign of them again!

In contrast, the blokes working on the driveway over the road from the roofing job are hard at it. They're laying a brick driveway.

[margaret*e]

They must be the same builders that have taken months here to do new pavements.😁

[cee-dee]

I looked out of the upstairs window this morning and would you believe it, there was a chaap on that roof. By the time I went out for my walk round, half the roof was slated but there was no sign of anyone working. Walking on, I spotted him under the scaffolding with his flask and butties 

When I passed the driveway job on the other side of the road, the blokes there had nearly finished it. They're laying those driveway bricks.

I've just been upstairs and I can see the front of that roof has now been completely slated. I wonder how the back of the roof's going?

[cee-dee]

The driveway is finished but over the road at the roofing job, I think they're working on the back of the roof.

I'll know when the back is done when I see the ridge tiles go on.

[cee-dee]

The ridge tiles are on the main roof but the rear extension's still being done.

When I went past this morning there wasn't a sound but round the side was an old geezer sat there sorting slates. He got up, shouldered a stack and weariliy headed up the scaffold. So, it might be finished soon. Good job, as tonight it's asolutely chucking it down.

By the way, where's Astro got to?

[cee-dee]

Through the window upstairs this morning I saw that the ridge tiles were on the rear extension but there was a cloud of dust streaming away from the site. I guessed they were cutting the final ridge tile(s) with a disc-cutter to fit against the chimney.

When I walked past later, it seemed that there were collections of tools and buckets on the scaffolding next to the ladder and the cat-ladder was also down so it looks like the job's completed.

Has Astro gone?

[cee-dee]

Just back from a walk round and two blokes are on the scaffold clearing debris which they're chucking down in to a small skip. The thing is, it's a cold, very damp, foggy November day and the youngest chap is wearing... short shorts!

The old chap I saw the other day wasn't there so they must have given the clearing up job to a couple of younger, fitter blokes. Roofing must be all finished so we'll see how long it takes for the scaffolding to come down?

[1956glyn]

This from what you say  does not sound like a professional job.

We had two huge shoots from our scaffolding down directly into a large skip 🙂   To be fair there was no "clearing up" as such

We have a huge peak on our house plus the top chimney stack was also replaced.

[cee-dee]

Professional? Ha-ha, you should see the sheet of some sort of board they've placed on the edge of the skip and on to the roof of the car next door!