A 100 years on ... a day to remember.

[merehazle]

 

1914 to 1918 the great war.  We owed them so much. Your thoughts and pictures please. We will be lighting a candle and putting it in our front window and turning out our lights between 10pm to 11pm as suggested by the papers.

750,000 Brits killed. And 17 millon on all sides. And the largely untold story of the Africans and Asians that fought alongside Europeans in the trenches. More than a million horses suffered horiffic deaths. And So many dogs were used often to pull guns. 

[saasher2012]

I myself am not glorifying war either the start , middle or end, just the lost lives & suffering then & now of those who were in them!!
They deserve my respect & they will & do get it!!! Although the thread is titled as it is that is what I believe it means, I dare say you will disagree but that is my take on it, & I will stand by it!

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@bankhaunter wrote:

 I still don't feel easy about commemorating the start of a war that cost so many so dear - it is the end of the war that deserves commemoration - isn't that why Remembrance Sunday is held on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month?

I would agree but it's hard to see how the date could be passed by without some sort of recognition.

Perhaps more publicising of the complex causes could be applicable, the percentage of the population who have any idea, I would suggest, is fairly low.

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Of course it would be impossible to ignore the passing of this anniversary and I have no qualms with linking the start of WWI with those who died and were wounded during it - that is why I think the poppy display at the Tower is appropriate. 

I simply feel uncomfortable with the establishment led commemorations which once again are using the sacrifices made by the millions of working class individuals before, during and after the War to promote subconsciously the idea that the country was unified in a single purpose both then and by implication, now.  Brings to mind the much vaunted phrase, "We're all in it together".

I agree that publicising the complex causes of the First World War would be a good idea - even amongst students of the period there are disputes over the causes, responsibilites and alternatives that were available.  The idea that we would "all be speaking German" had we not joined the fight in support of Belgium does not hold water - Europe would certainly have been a different place and the power centres would likely not be as they are today but Germany had no designs on the UK at the start of the century, the Balkan countries would likely have been more stable, the holocaust may have been averted and the Cold War never have happened.

On the other hand not taking action when we did could well have resulted in a century of small wars on the European mainland.

Like Saasher I honour those who died during this conflict, equally with those who died in earlier and later conflicts - it is not necessary to commemorate the start of such an horrific war to do so - quite the opposite, a common thread that runs amongst almost all the stories of those who did return is their reluctance to talk about it on their return.

[merehazle]

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@saasher2012 wrote:
I myself am not glorifying war either the start , middle or end, just the lost lives & suffering then & now of those who were in them!!
They deserve my respect & they will & do get it!!! Although the thread is titled as it is that is what I believe it means, I dare say you will disagree but that is my take on it, & I will stand by it!

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Well said SAM. 

Most would have accepted that (and did) without the slightest hesitation. But someone will wait for an opportunity no matter how ridiculous it is to take a poke.

I will have nothing to do with anyone who will not even say a word of thanks to those who deserve respect.

We have seen the twists, and know the rest of the twists that almost certainly will be coming.  Saying nothing is NEVER an option for some it seems.   

[merehazle]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

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@bankhaunter wrote:

 I still don't feel easy about commemorating the start of a war that cost so many so dear - it is the end of the war that deserves commemoration - isn't that why Remembrance Sunday is held on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month?

I would agree but it's hard to see how the date could be passed by without some sort of recognition.

Perhaps more publicising of the complex causes could be applicable, the percentage of the population who have any idea, I would suggest, is fairly low.

---

Of course it would be impossible to ignore the passing of this anniversary and I have no qualms with linking the start of WWI with those who died and were wounded during it - that is why I think the poppy display at the Tower is appropriate. 

I simply feel uncomfortable with the establishment led commemorations which once again are using the sacrifices made by the millions of working class individuals before, during and after the War to promote subconsciously the idea that the country was unified in a single purpose both then and by implication, now.  Brings to mind the much vaunted phrase, "We're all in it together".

I agree that publicising the complex causes of the First World War would be a good idea - even amongst students of the period there are disputes over the causes, responsibilites and alternatives that were available.  The idea that we would "all be speaking German" had we not joined the fight in support of Belgium does not hold water - Europe would certainly have been a different place and the power centres would likely not be as they are today but Germany had no designs on the UK at the start of the century, the Balkan countries would likely have been more stable, the holocaust may have been averted and the Cold War never have happened.

On the other hand not taking action when we did could well have resulted in a century of small wars on the European mainland.

Like Saasher I honour those who died during this conflict, equally with those who died in earlier and later conflicts - it is not necessary to commemorate the start of such an horrific war to do so - quite the opposite, a common thread that runs amongst almost all the stories of those who did return is their reluctance to talk about it on their return.

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God he's on and on, on and on, on and on about the START!!!

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@merehazle wrote:

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@saasher2012 wrote:
I myself am not glorifying war either the start , middle or end, just the lost lives & suffering then & now of those who were in them!!
They deserve my respect & they will & do get it!!! Although the thread is titled as it is that is what I believe it means, I dare say you will disagree but that is my take on it, & I will stand by it!

---

Well said SAM. 

Most would have accepted that (and did) without the slightest hesitation. But someone will wait for an opportunity no matter how ridiculous it is to take a poke.

I will have nothing to do with anyone who will not even say a word of thanks to those who deserve respect.

We have seen the twists, and know the rest of the twists that almost certainly will be coming.  Saying nothing is NEVER an option for some it seems.   

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I don't appreciate outright lies saying that I have never said a word of thanks on this thread or any other.  Please retract!

[merehazle]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

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@merehazle wrote:

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@saasher2012 wrote:
I myself am not glorifying war either the start , middle or end, just the lost lives & suffering then & now of those who were in them!!
They deserve my respect & they will & do get it!!! Although the thread is titled as it is that is what I believe it means, I dare say you will disagree but that is my take on it, & I will stand by it!

---

Well said SAM. 

Most would have accepted that (and did) without the slightest hesitation. But someone will wait for an opportunity no matter how ridiculous it is to take a poke.

I will have nothing to do with anyone who will not even say a word of thanks to those who deserve respect.

We have seen the twists, and know the rest of the twists that almost certainly will be coming.  Saying nothing is NEVER an option for some it seems.   

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I don't appreciate outright lies saying that I have never said a word of thanks on this thread or any other.  Please retract!

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I don't appreciate being called a liar either.  

You had the opportunity at your message 17 where was it? You offered some sort of thanks somewhere on YOUR terms a lot later after just a little bit of pressure to get you to do so. But you said what you said at message 17.  And I never mentioned any other thread. Calm down. Press the button if you wish but what's been seen has been seen.

I'm going to say what I see.  And what I said was TRUTH! 

[upthecreekyetagain]

And you accuse me of twisting!

[merehazle]

Have you finished?   Didn't work 'once again' did it?

Oh no please don't bother I know the answer.

Tat tar.

[upthecreekyetagain]

What didn't work?

Is that another twist?

[astrologica]

Thank you. Busty.....I have read that this afternoon. I can see where you are coming from, but I'm afraid I can't go along with it. It wouldn't matter what date you wanted to use , there would always be a way of calculating it to fit. I'm afraid I would rather believe my trusty Tarot cards! And I'm not trying to provoke you there......I know you don't approve of the Tarot.

[**bustysinclaire**]

You are welcome Astroligica.............Tarot - if that is what you choose then who am I to judge, it is not my approval that is of any importance..........insert smiley. xxxxxxx........................................................ I have to say I don't agree about the calculating to fit because if you look at the accounts from the scriptures and in context (using the supplied cross references then we are left in no uncertain terms what dates they are pointing to. I will agree though, the people who do choose not to believe it will misinterpret and change meanings to suit there arguments against. Rather like some on this thread. I don't mean that in an offensive way either as we are all entitled to our opinions. And of course because I believe that the faith I follow is the truth I will state it that way and visa versa.......................................................... What we are taught, with the information and scriptures we do have at our fingertips is to research and check things out for ourselves. Answers are given to the questions we can pose, we just have to be open enough to want to be educated by them. Ignore what anyone says..if it is important to you to seak out and learn about God, never give up you will have your answers and you will find him. xxxxx

[astrologica]

Thank you busty....that's a very honest answer. You mentioned never giving up seeking God.....I lost my belief in a God in 1966. I spent the next 30 years or so looking at different religions, and I suppose you could call it 'looking for God', but I never found anything that I could truly believe in. In fact...the more I learned, the more I came to where I am now, not believing in any God, and totally at odds with any religion. I do envy you your faith..it must be a comfort to you, but I could never live the way you do. It would mean that my family would not be whole, and I could not do that, even for a God that I believed in.
On my Great Grandparents gravestone are the words:
Is there call for a loving servant, a messenger swift for thee?
A bearer of Glad Good tidings...here am I Lord, send me.
I always loved those words, and always wished that I could feel like they did, but I know now that that is not possible. I will never be that 'loving servant'...but I will pay you the compliment of saying that you are indeed a 'loving servant'. Xx

[**bustysinclaire**]

Thank you too Astrologica xxx......................... One of our Kingdom songs has similar words and I have to say it is a beautiful sound when we all sing it, because we all mean it..................I hope you have found peace and happiness my lovely and wish you well xxxxx........I do very much appreciate the kind and respectful way you have posted too. Thank you. xxxx

[saasher2012]

Oops ! Sorry Gremlins .

[merehazle]

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@saasher2012 wrote:
Oops ! Sorry Gremlins .

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Oh come on lets TWIST again like we did last summer. (wink) .  He don't TWIST so much without his mate. (wink).

[upthecreekyetagain]

Some posters really come across as pathetic, tiresome and bigoted individuals  - happy to tell lies about others.

[merehazle]

He's waiting. (heh)    Oh dear the excitement?

 

Yes. well stop coming across like it then. You had the option to say nothing but by going on, and on, and on, and on, on YOU cocked it all up. Even managed to frustrate someone else into saying YOU twist things. Yes that's fresh in your mind (that's if anything can be fresh in there?) others would have seen it too. shame that.  And the evidence is still there - shame that too.

Yes I know the rest Mr reeky on and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on.....   zzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzzz  

See you tomorrow Sam.

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@merehazle wrote:

God he's on and on, on and on, on and on about the START!!!

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Seems a reasonable thing to do on a thread titled - "A 100 years on .... a day to remember" - started on the 4th of August.

Didn't you realise that the day you started the thread was the 100th anniversary of the START of WWI? 

[**caution**opinion_ahead]

I'm reading a book of essays by Clive James at the moment, and one is a speech he gave at a commemoration of Anzac Day in 1988.

I will quote part of what he has to say, as I think it is pertinent to the discussion about whether commemorations glorify conflict or pay homage to those individuals who took part in the conflict.  (As a man whose father survived appalling treatment in a Japanese POW camp, only to be killed in an air crash on his way home to Australia, James is certainly qualified to know about the far-reaching impact war has on individual lives.

" ... In our generation and probably for all the generations to come, the privileged nations no longer fight each other, or will fight each other. It is, and will be, the sad fate of the underprivileged nations to do all that. In the meanwhile the way is open for our children to misinterpret history, and believe that a ceremony like this honours militarism. Except by our participation in this moment of solemnity – the solemnity that always courts pomposity, unless we can forget ourselves and remember those who never lived to stand on ceremony – how can we convince our children that the opposite is true? ..."

"... Militarism, in both the great wars, was the enemy. It was why the enemy had to be fought. Almost all our dead were civilians in peacetime, and the aching gaps they left were not in the barracks but on the farms and in the factories, in the suburbs and the little towns with one pub. ..."

"... When we say that the lives of any of our young men and women under arms were wasted we should be very careful what we mean. We who are lucky enough to live in the world they helped to make safe from institutionalized evil can’t expect any prizes for pronouncing that war is not glorious. They knew that. They fought the wars anyway, and that was their glory. It’s obviously true that the world would have been a better place if the wars had never happened, but it’s profoundly true that it would have been an infinitely worse place if they had not been fought and won. ..."

"... All our dead would rather have lived in peace. But there was no peace. Now there is, and perhaps, in our protected, cushioned and lulling circumstances, one of the best ways to realize what life is really worth is to try to imagine the intensity with which they must have felt its value just before they lost it. Sacrifice is a large word, but no word can be large enough for that small moment. The only eloquence that fits is silence – which I will ask you to observe with me as I fulfil my gladly accepted duty and unveil this plaque.

Battersea Park, 1988"

If you want to read the whole speech, here is a link.

http://www.clivejames.com/books/even/anzac

[lambsy_uk]

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@merehazle wrote:

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

Seems strange to be commemorating the start of a war - in 2103 will we be doing the same for the second Gulf war?

This comment may sound disrespectful but just think about it for one second - the loss of all those brave servicemen and women in Iraq was no less tragic than those who fought in WWI - as well as being far more recent and and still traumatic for living relatives but do we really want to commemorate the start of that particular war?

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Oh dear... we must think about it for one second? (alright done). Your comment does sound ''disrespectful'' and there's no may about it IMO.

No one has said the loss of all those brave servicemen and women in Iraq was no less tragic than those who fought in WW1.

You obviously don't really want to commemorate this particular war. And YOU said the ''start'' of that particular war? A convenient word from you, I wonder why? (not).

It's about praise for what they did over the ''whole war''.  Think about that for a second. And YOU come on to a thread like this show disrespect. How dare you?

If it had not been for them YOU  (if you were even alive)  would be speaking German now. Nothing like showing no praise for the Brits and all our allies is there?  But then there's a reason why you wont...heh.  And you have the nerve to say ''WE''.

Now someone else have (it) I wont.      I know the rest of the twist stuff.

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I must say you don't half talk a load of unwarranted guff!!!