eBay now asking for NI numbers

[btr.style]

I set up a new private account not long back for selling off genuinely unwanted goods (as I said before, better off selling them on a private account than paying full fees or watering down the clothing business selling nans old china stuff). 

30 sales made and it came up saying I have to update my account and provide NI number. Fine, I've nothing to hide so I did. 

So it seems the rollout has started. Probably just new accounts when they hit 30 sales and won't be for established accounts for some time maybe. 

It first popped up on the app and that page was where I got to. I also had an email about it. 

So it seems now, anyone wanting to open a private account to sell stuff as a side hustle had best be prepared to have to give their NI numbers once they reach 30 sales. 

Probably will be for all sellers to have to provide it soon surely?

[kath3735_wxmjn]

and?   So that just means that by sending a cheque you are giving some of your details away just like with your e bay account.  The point surely is that anyone you give any details to (especially if they are hackers and scammers) can use that information for nefarious purposes.   So why the big deal over giving e bay (on orders from the tax man) the NI number?   What about all the other on line sites who are having to do this, wonder if they are getting bombarded with all this furore over it or are they still keeping it quiet until nearer the time?

[lucy_farmer]

It would be interesting to get the opinion of somebody who also sells on Vinted/ Amazon/etsy etc to see how it's being done there.  And if it's just ebay sellers who are a bit 'paranoid'!   (I put myself as the slightly paranoid class!)

Do these other sites have a 'talking board' like this one? Does anybody here use those?

[theelench]

If it is hacked it will be investigated by UK data protection authorities (DP) to make sure it fully complied with UK DP legislation.  If found to be at fault it will be subject to whatever penalties are in force or perhaps whatever UK courts can impose in fines or compensation.  Their HQ is in the UK, the directors / owners are UK citizens.  Which makes it quite unequivocal that they and the company are subject to UK laws and courts.

No possibility of years of legal arguments (in California?) about who has jurisdiction or whether fines from UK courts will be paid by ebay inc. in the US.

Also, apart from hacking, there is less chance that they will send my data to an off-shore HQ as they don't have one.  There is also the trust aspect to consider.  Ebay and other US tech. giants have a reputation for playing fast and loose with laws and regulations about mis-use of data whenever they think they can get away with it.  Most of them have criminal convictions for doing so.  So far as I know, the UK company has not gone down that road.

AS for bank account details mentioned by others.  IMO anyone with even a basic care for the security and integrity of their identity will have set-up a stand-alone bank account for on-line buying / selling, entirely seperate and isolated from real world banking and savings.  I and anyone else with any common sense did this before any involvement with Paypal, ebay, MP or any other platform.

Are they ever going to fix the Spell-checker????

[*devils.advocate*]

As |’ve said a few times, I used to sell (until the end/beginning of 2023/2024) - but my better half still (now only partly) runs her business from eBay.

I found the Boards (as they were then) 21 years ago when I started selling on eBay - and I’ve posted off-and-on during the years (under different posting IDs in the early years).

The BH won’t come anywhere near the Boards (no time for one thing), so I keep her up-to-date with all the (potential business) problems etc - the Boards being, by far and away, the best resource not only for problems but help, information, etc as, I assume, you will agree.

so why get so involved in the argument as it is not going to affect you?

It may well do as a buyer - as many (collectable / ‘one of’ / general) things to buy might disappear so I might have to forget all about eBay and look to buy elsewhere - or maybe competition lessening for the BH - or as a seller if I choose to sell again in future?

(And my Bank Account is/was unique to eBay and with a different Bank than that I normally use.)

It’s not just the NINO situation - there might be a whole sea-change if they “adjust” business rates and/or add a buyer’s fee etc - they all have an accumulative effect on buying and selling.

And surely you’re not suggesting that only sellers should post on this Board - therefore, only businesses should post on the Business Board, etc?

If so, this thread is on the wrong Board?

[myriad*seller]

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@lucy_farmer wrote:

It would be interesting to get the opinion of somebody who also sells on Vinted/ Amazon/etsy etc to see how it's being done there.  And if it's just ebay sellers who are a bit 'paranoid'!   (I put myself as the slightly paranoid class!)

Do these other sites have a 'talking board' like this one? Does anybody here use those?

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Posts about Vinted requesting NI numbers are on Reddit . According to the thread I am reading, there was a "technical error" and they published NI numbers openly on profiles for a while about a month ago... 

So hacking is the least of everyone's worries.....😄

Search 

"Pro Account National Insurance Numbers reddit " to find the thread 

[lucy_farmer]

'.......they published NI numbers openly on profiles for a while about a month ago....'

Oh my gawd.  

I paraphrase;   'Just because we're paranoid, it doesn't mean it's not going to happen'  !

[theelench]

The other site I mentioned is ebid, chosen in part because it is not a US tech. giant and yes they do have discussion boards.

So far as I've seen, The Management hasn't even mentioned this initiative yet, although they do frequently use their "Site Updates" board to let sellers know about site changes.

Their boards had one thread on the subject at about the same time as ebay made its first Announcement.  As usual over there it had a few comments and fizzled out.  So I haven't gained any info. from there about what they intend to do or when.  Most of my thinking has been the result of ebay's announcement and the discussions by sellers on these boards.

On this topic I'd give ebay Kudos for their early announcement about what is going to happen, how ebay plans to go about complying and the regular reports from members about what is actually happening.  There has been nothing similar on the other site.

[theelench]

To add to the above.  I think they've left it a bit late to make sellers aware of what is going to happen, especially for those who only sell on that site who may still have no idea that this will affect all sellers on every site. 

[vintage-emporium-jedburgh]

Those that are Paranoid  about a NI number 

they should  ditch their phone credit card and passport

because what you spend where you are and what you say is  out there 

[the-nutwood-collection]

I sell on Etsy.  At the end of July, I received an email to say that, from the following month, Etsy would be asking sellers to 'share a bit more information about themselves and their business' for various reasons, including 'evolving tax regulations in the EU, UK and Canada'.  Etsy's view of the world is that it's divided into two chunks - USA and ROW - which is why UK sellers get lumped togther for notification purposes with any other bit of the planet that has similar regulations.  The email informed me that I didn't have to do anything now, but I might like to get a 'head start' by reviewing my Legal and Tax information now.

Etsy is unfailingly polite in its emails (unlike eBay), very happy-clappy, but I know they can act like a striking snake when it comes to bulk deleting shops without notice (unlike eBay), so I reviewed and updated all the information immediately.  I seem to remember it was names, addresses, phone, DoB, NINO, UTR, VAT, the French and German packaging numbers, etc. basically all the info Etsy holds or might want to hold.

On October 19,  I was surprised to get another email telling me that I had to confirm the information I'd 'shared' with them and add any missing details within 60 days 'as legally required'.  It went onto say that if I didn't confirm/update the info within 10 days I wouldn't be paid until I did.  If I still hadn't done it within 60 days, my shop would be put into holiday mode - which meant I wouldn't be shown in search and I couldn't receive orders.  Etsy the striking snake.  Shame eBay doesn't ask Etsy to sort out our private seller problem.

I confirmed the data, and got an email thanking me for 'keeping Etsy safe'.

I've looked at the Etsy discussion boards.  They're not easy to navigate, and quite different to eBay's.  Etsy's boards are a vicarage tea party, eBay's are Dodge City - gunfire in every direction.  On the subject of NINO etc. there are few posts and these are mainly asking for clarification about the data required and display anxiety towards inputting the correct information.  Scared sellers.  I saw none questioning data security but, on the data input window, there is information about how Etsy will keep the data safe - so maybe this reassures sellers.  However, there are a number of posts from desperate sellers whose shops have suddenly gone into holiday mode - so it seems Etsy is good to their word (unlike eBay).   

[ett1954]

"No possibility of years of legal arguments (in California?) about who has jurisdiction or whether fines from UK courts will be paid by ebay inc. in the US."

As I alluded to previously.  US companies, regardless of whether they specifically target EU or UK customers, are subject to the GDPR’s requirements if they handle the personal data of individuals residing in the UK.  The regulation empowers supervisory authorities to impose significant fines, which can amount to up to 4% of the company’s annual global turnover or €20 million, whichever is higher; and in addition non-compliance can lead to reputational damage and legal actions by affected individuals.

There have been several instances of fines on US companies for breaching GDPR however one of the biggest fines (if not the biggest) brought by the ICO was against British Airways when they were subject of a cyber-attack during 2018, which they did not detect for more than two months.  There is no evidence I can find of US companies not paying any fines once the appeals process has been exhausted.

US companies working in the UK have a raft of rules and regulations, over and above the standard GDPR reqirements, to conform to in order to comply with GDPR for both UK and EU citizens and these are strictly enforced.

[kempseykate]

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@vintage-emporium-jedburgh wrote:

Those that are Paranoid  about a NI number 

they should  ditch their phone credit card and passport

because what you spend where you are and what you say is  out there 

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I have no passport, so I don't know about those, but my NI number definitely isn't on my phone (on which I don't do things like banking etc anyway) or my credit card.

Why can people not get it? I'm OK with ebay having my name, my address and my bank details. My issue is that those along with NI number are all you need for identity theft.

[ett1954]

Before this episode Vinted, an EU (Lithuanian) company were already under investigation regarding compliance to GDPR by the EU authorities.  That incident certainly will not help.

[the_book_seekers]

Personally I wish ebay would get on and do what ever they're going to do over UTRs and NINOs. There's now under 3 months until the first lot of information goes to HMRC and if ebay leave gathering of numbers until it becomes a rush - that's when things go wrong and with ebay's track record they need to be leaving time to sort out any problems.

[theelench]

It does seem a bit odd??

I'm sure that many private sellers will have no objections to giving ebay their NINO and by now I would have thought that ebay would have given them the opportunity, if they're happy about doing so.   That would at least reduce any last minute rush.

I just checked my Account > Personal Information page, thinking there might be a new section to add a NINO, but I can't see one.

The only other place I can think of to get the info. is on the Listing Form, as a requirement before a listing goes live?  But that seems a round-about way of doing it, even for ebay.

Perhaps I'm underestimating how complicated it is to add a new section to Account Details and integrating it into what already exists?

[*vyolla*]

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@lucy_farmer wrote:

It would be interesting to get the opinion of somebody who also sells on Vinted/ Amazon/etsy etc to see how it's being done there.  And if it's just ebay sellers who are a bit 'paranoid'!   (I put myself as the slightly paranoid class!)

Do these other sites have a 'talking board' like this one? Does anybody here use those?

---

Vinted closed their forum down completely shortly before the digital reporting NINO announcement. 😀

[wyntersemporium]

Amazons boards are hit n miss.  Hardly anyone goes on to them. 

[rigilchrist]

There is only one reason why HMRC wants this - it is to track our income and tax us on profits. I don't see any risk in handing over our NI number as there are numerous ways to obtain it. If you are running a business, rather than just selling your personal stuff (which you bought with your taxed income) then you can expect to have to declare the income on your tax return, because they'll know about it.

[lucy_farmer]

'There is only one reason why HMRC wants this - it is to track our income and tax us on profits'

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HMRC haven't initiated this, they're having to do it because of an OECD wide clamp-down on online money-laundering.

(OECD being the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development).

There are 38 countries involved (basically the whole Western World) and they are *all* doing it.

Mind you, I don't suppose the govt are too upset at having a good ol' look into a lot more bank accounts than before!

edit- darn it, got fat fingers today....

[punzel9072]

If eBay now hold National Insurance numbers, in conjunction with HMRC, what is to stop HMRC charging tax on the eBay earnings of private sellers who are only clearing out items from the loft, their late granny's effects, and thinning out DVDs and old clothes that no longer required?