eBay now asking for NI numbers

[btr.style]

I set up a new private account not long back for selling off genuinely unwanted goods (as I said before, better off selling them on a private account than paying full fees or watering down the clothing business selling nans old china stuff). 

30 sales made and it came up saying I have to update my account and provide NI number. Fine, I've nothing to hide so I did. 

So it seems the rollout has started. Probably just new accounts when they hit 30 sales and won't be for established accounts for some time maybe. 

It first popped up on the app and that page was where I got to. I also had an email about it. 

So it seems now, anyone wanting to open a private account to sell stuff as a side hustle had best be prepared to have to give their NI numbers once they reach 30 sales. 

Probably will be for all sellers to have to provide it soon surely?

[4_bathrooms]

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@theelench wrote:

This is new in that HMRC has moved the goal-posts on what it will consider personal possessions and their sale going forward

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Have they?

I don't think HMRC even want all this information handed over to them as they're simply being told what they already know. The only reason eBay is obliged to request a NINO and hand over the information when one of the thresholds is met is because that information is what the OECD's model rules state they must hand over. 

[4_bathrooms]

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@lucy_farmer wrote:

But if you have sold some stuff as CoC, ebay have no financial hold over you to make you input your NINO.

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The threshold is 30 transactions or ~£1,700; the method of payment is irrelevant.

[lucy_farmer]

'The threshold is 30 transactions or ~£1,700; the method of payment is irrelevant.'

Yep, but ebay keeping hold of your payment until you've input your NINO is impossible if somebody has paid you in cash for whatever they've bought.

And, to be honest, selling something worth a lot of money (you may only need to sell a couple of things a year to get near the 1700 quid figure) is much less worrying to do by cash-on-collection.

[4_bathrooms]

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@lucy_farmer wrote:

Yep, but ebay keeping hold of your payment until you've input your NINO is impossible if somebody has paid you in cash for whatever they've bought.

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Actually, you have a good point.

When eBay recently removed cash on collection as a payment method I was surprised because many private sellers prefer it for large and/or valuable items, private sellers have no FVF fees (up to their monthly listing limit) and a CoC payment meant there was no potential Money Back Guarantee case for eBay to get involved with. 

However, eBay have also announced (via a press release) there will be a "buyer facing" fee introduced at some point in 2025 and an eBay digital payment wallet (is that already a thing?). So, it will be like PayPal in reverse; instead of the seller paying a fee when they receive the electronic funds the buyer pays a fee when they purchase something using theirs. If a seller has access to their digital wallet - which isn't actually money - restricted because the seller refused to hand over their NINO eBay would still be getting paid for any subsequent transactions. Genius!  

[raik1performance]

I got the same email, still trying to figure it out 🫣

[vintage-emporium-jedburgh]

Ebay  already  have your address,  your bank details ,  credit card number telephone number , computer and internet access data

everything you have ever sold on the site,

Probably a lot more we  can only guess at,

who cares if they have a NI number also

[the-nutwood-collection]

I wonder what happens if you put in the wrong or fake NI number.

The eBay interface should validate the format of the NINO and reject any input that doesn't conform to the rules.  If the format is OK, my opinion is that it will be pushed through to HMRC and their systems will validate it.

If it's invalid, the next actions will be specified by HMRC and eBay will have to code accordingly.

I've specified apps for non-UK utility companies that require the input of a number which triggered the calculation of discounts for disability, veteran, etc.  The number format was validated on input and, if it passed validation, the discounts were calculated on all future bills. 

The issuing authority validated the number and, if it was found to be incorrect or a duplicate, an investigation was launched.  If it was an honest mistake, the issuing authority passed back the correct number on the interface.  If they suspected fraud, a delete command was passed back on the interface and this wiped out the number and stopped the discounts.

[pillarboxred]

EBay has nearly thirty years of data about what typical households buy and sell and can probably guess that a seller is not "private" for a variety of reasons or "metrics" and there are many public databases that can be checked and a National Insurance number tells them who you are. So when someone starts selling hundreds of pieces of antique furniture, if it can be determined that the individual has inherited a castle from a duke who was a relative, then the seller is a private seller. 

[equinox-electronics]

There is going be no way around not giving your national insurance number end of January if you cross the thresholds. 

The end of the day if sellers have nothing to hide they will happily hand over the information. 

The ones that don't in my eyes have something to hide 

[theelench]

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@ett1954 wrote:

"At the end of the day, we will all suffer from what I think is a short-sighted decision by the treasury." - This is nothing to do with a decision made by the treasury or HMRC.  As has been pointed out previously this is an international agreement whereby countries can identify individuals or companies moving money by digital means both nationally and internationally in an effort to identify criminality such as money laundering, child exploitation, people and drug trafficking, and of course tax evasion as well as a host of other criminal activities.

Nobody knows at the moment how deep HMRC will go into the tax evasion part; only time will tell.  eBay are only following the terms of the agreement signed by the the 35+ countries of the OECD as instructed by HMRC.  The other countries will be doing the same and consolidating their information.

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Thank you for that clarification.  I think we all know that this is an OECD agreement and in the UK implementing it is being undertaken by HMRC.

Leaving aside those businesses who disguise themselves as "private" sellers where there is legitimate concern that they may be doing so to evade tax, I wonder what percentage of private sellers you, or HMRC, might think are in any way connected with any of the criminal behaviour that you list ?

My guess is that it's somewhere between miniscule and non-existent, which to my mind leaves only the taxation reason for gathering the NINO of every private seller on ebay.  To me that is a huge risk to the data security of the sellers to squeeze a little more tax out of them individually and even in total might be disappointing to HMRC unless they are going to dig deep.

[*devils.advocate*]

Or maybe they just don't trust ebay?

Given the number of "mistakes" they've made over many years, then perhaps some will think enough is enough?

[vintage-emporium-jedburgh]

If ebay is not to be trusted!

why2

have an account or buy and sell on the site in the first place ?

[theelench]

Really ?  

I won't be giving my NINO to ebay, the risk is not worth the reward of a handful of sales a year, I will stop selling here rather than comply.

Does that mean I have something to hide?  No it does not.

I sell more on another site and will give them my NINO when asked, I have most of my "inventory" visible there and they have a more accurate picture of my real level of sales over the last few years than ebay does.

[equinox-electronics]

But you trust ebay with your bank details? Pot kettle black 

[*devils.advocate*]

Wrong - another false assumption like so many others on these Boards.

I no longer sell - I used to - but eBay don't not have my bank details - I'm a buyer.

So, stick your kettle .......................

It’s become an automatic thing here - ooooh, you’ve sold X, you must be a business?

Not providing a NINO, you must have something to hide?

Well, since so many have posted about it, prove it - after all, that’s what everyone who has posted about the above is asking eBay to do.

Yes, it might be it looks like a duck etc …………………………

If you can’t actually prove it, can eBay?

Rather than the repetitive post after post after post about it, at least someone suggest a way they can do so?

Look, maybe some (as my uncle) have had two accounts - one buying and one selling (that was the advice on these very Boards during the very early years - but he won’t give his NINO to eBay - and if has been so insultingly suggested that he is - or others are - hiding something because of it - well, so wrong.

[exponential_developments]

Bank details.........So does everyone i have ever sent a cheque to........honestly.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

i would imagine that the reason they are using the NINO number is that they are collating information from ALL online sites.  The best way to do that would be the NINO number which the computer can easily put together and give HMRC a quick view of the TOTAL stuff that people are selling.  I only sell on this site but many many others also sell on vinted etc.   If they sell on say 3 or 4 different selling sites the amount will probably be vastly higher so the taxman can see who offers the biggest tax windfall for them.   It will also attach instantly to their normal tax accounts.  Makes perfect sense for them to use that number.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

so why sell on e bay at all when you have to give your bank details, if they cannot be trusted with an NI number then how can you trust them with bank details??  Sorry, but i think that argument is a bit illogical although many people seem to be using it.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

and when that site is hacked??

[kath3735_wxmjn]

so why get so involved in the argument as it is not going to affect you?  E Bay are not trying to prove anything, they are complying with what has been requested of them by the tax man (or woman).  Just like all the other sites will be doing.