eBay now asking for NI numbers

[btr.style]

I set up a new private account not long back for selling off genuinely unwanted goods (as I said before, better off selling them on a private account than paying full fees or watering down the clothing business selling nans old china stuff). 

30 sales made and it came up saying I have to update my account and provide NI number. Fine, I've nothing to hide so I did. 

So it seems the rollout has started. Probably just new accounts when they hit 30 sales and won't be for established accounts for some time maybe. 

It first popped up on the app and that page was where I got to. I also had an email about it. 

So it seems now, anyone wanting to open a private account to sell stuff as a side hustle had best be prepared to have to give their NI numbers once they reach 30 sales. 

Probably will be for all sellers to have to provide it soon surely?

[the_book_seekers]

It's good to see ebay has started. There has been a worry that it would be left to the last moment which would've been chaotic. Did the request come with any time scale to provide the NI or threat of preventing selling if not provided? 

[btr.style]

Nothing that I could see. There was a banner at the top of the app saying if it's not provided or could affect payouts (no time limit provided, but I'd imagine they'd keep sending pestering reminders). At a guess a week later all payouts would have been stopped. 

Great it's happening at last. 

[magpiecorner1]

Wonder what happens if you don't have a NI number?

[the-nutwood-collection]

I believe that a NI number is issued automatically to everyone when they reach the age at which they can legally work (16?).  If you lose the notification, you can look the number up online.

[jckl1957]

You are right @the-nutwood-collection and, if you move here from another country, you have to apply for a NI number in order to legally work in the UK.

However, there could potentially be people now living in the UK who have Ebay accounts and sell on the site but don't have a NI number.

[the_book_seekers]

It will be interesting to see what if any effect it has on those sellers who purport to be in the UK but aren't. 

[papso22]

The worrying thing about it being a new account that is being asked for the NI number is that it seems eBay might still believe their own fake news about the new law only affecting new accounts this first year. 

They are going to have to do a lot of catching up when HMRC puts them straight,  or pay some pretty hefty fines.  Hefty fines probably means fee increases.

[btr.style]

Absolutely. 

Who knows what goes on. Are they worryingly thinking as you say or is it just new accounts are more likely to get them in trouble than long standing "honest" account holders. 

That's the email btw on the app. With the title "it's time to update your account information". 

[papso22]

Sneaky wording!  The new rules don't put any requirements on sellers, the requirements are on the selling platforms, but for ebay to meet their requirements they need this information from sellers. 

[the-nutwood-collection]

However, there could potentially be people now living in the UK who have Ebay accounts and sell on the site but don't have a NI number.

If a person has the right to work in the UK, they can apply for an NI number.  If they don't have the right to work, they can't legally carry on a trade such as selling goods for profit on eBay. 

If they have the right to remain in the UK but not the right to work, then I'm guessing that they can sell their personal possessions.  Without an NI, they can't sell on eBay, but they could ask someone with an NI to sell the stuff on their behalf.

As @the_book_seekers  has said, this is going to be an interesting conundrum for private sellers that purport to be in the UK, but aren't - and private sellers that don't have the right to work in the UK but are running a business.

The demand for NI numbers will open up a big can of worms, and I expect HMRC  and Immigration are hoping to find some nice fat juicy ones when they match NI numbers to names and addresses.

[a45heaven]

Keeping your National Insurance number safe

To prevent identity fraud, do not share your National Insurance number with anyone who does not need it.

These organisations may need to know what your number is:

• HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC)
• your employer
• the Department for Work and Pensions (which includes Jobcentre Plus and the Pension, Disability and Carers Service), if you claim state benefits, or in Northern Ireland the Department for Social Development
• your local council, if you claim Housing Benefit, or the Northern Ireland Housing Executive
• Electoral Registration Officers (to check your identity when you register to vote)
• the Student Loans Company, if you apply for a student loan
• your pension provider if you have a personal or stakeholder pension
• your Individual Savings Account (ISA) provider, if you open an ISA
• authorised financial service providers who help you buy and sell investments like shares, bonds and derivatives - you can check if your provider is authorised
• Veterans UK

Which of these catagories do ebay fall under?

[vinylscot]

To be fair, I think that is highly unlikely. Although eBay has no input into the decision-making process around this matter, they will have been party to discussions with HMRC regarding how to introduce the necessary changes to their model. I am sure eBay is acting within the guidance set out by HMRC, who would already be "on the case", if they felt they were not doing so. 

[theelench]

When the new reporting rules were announced wasn't there some talk about sellers being able to use their UTR, if they had one, for registering and cross referencing by HMRC?

There doesn't seem to any reference to UTR in the messages from ebay.  Was this ever an option?  Has ebay decided to ignore it if it ever was or still is, in favour of collecting NINOs from all sellers? 

[a45heaven]

Have you had any notice from Facebook , Discogs etc of this info to be submitted to HMRC ?

If all the info is not sent/ requested, it can surely only be a partial picture of your business - making it worthless, no ?

Ebay are already reaping fees from sellers for this practice even though the info is not to be submitted until Jan 2025 !

[papso22]

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@theelench wrote:

When the new reporting rules were announced wasn't there some talk about sellers being able to use their UTR, if they had one, for registering and cross referencing by HMRC?

There doesn't seem to any reference to UTR in the messages from ebay.  Was this ever an option?  Has ebay decided to ignore it if it ever was or still is, in favour of collecting NINOs from all sellers? 

---

It will be NINOs from private account holders and UTRs from business account holders.

[papso22]

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@vinylscot wrote:

To be fair, I think that is highly unlikely. Although eBay has no input into the decision-making process around this matter, they will have been party to discussions with HMRC regarding how to introduce the necessary changes to their model. I am sure eBay is acting within the guidance set out by HMRC, who would already be "on the case", if they felt they were not doing so. 

---

If you are right how could they have got the rules so wrong in their communications with ebay members?  They (ebay) state quite clearly that the new reporting rules for Jan 2025 will only apply to accounts opened in 2024.  That is absolutely not the case.  The internationally agreed rules do not include such an 'amnesty'.

[theelench]

That seems to be how ebay is planning to do it but it is quite feasible for private account holders to have a UTR.  I did for most of my time selling here as I was self-employed and filing Self Assessment Tax Returns until retirement.  My NINO is already registered with HMRC through that UTR,  ebay doesn't need to be given it as I can give my UTR to be reported by ebay (if I manage to pass either of the thresholds).

I am reluctant to give ebay my NINO, which is linked to wages, pensions and savings, whereas my UTR is only linked to HMRC records and tax calculations.

[papso22]

If private account holders have a UTR then, if they are genuine private sellers, it would make things easier for them if they just gave ebay their NINO.

[kempseykate]

I'm very undecided about this.

One the one hand, I have nothing to hide, and still have quite a bit of stuff to get rid of, so would like to continue using ebay.

On the other hand, I really do not want to pass my NI number on to ebay. I have no problem with HMRC having it - they already do have it. Ebay have way to much info about me already, if they get hacked, and my NI no. is there as well ...

Like theelench I have a UTR (somewhere) from my business/SA days. I would be marginally happier about ebay having that. We recently had major issues with my OH's work pension - if the people that received the pension packs (they got the address and postcode wrong repeatedly) had access to OH's NI number they would have been very happy indeed!

I can't see why ebay can't just pass on my name (they have my full name because of it matching bank account), address and dob to HMRC. I'm sure they would find my NI number in seconds.