This is going to mean the end for many small private sellers. "Buyer Protection Fee"

[vinylscot]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/buying/paying-items/buyer-protection?id=5594

75p plus 4% buyers fee, so something which was priced at £5 will be £5.95 in February.

[a45heaven]

Whilst that may well work for you - its an awful lot of messing around and with potential slips - more so on overseas deals.

Personally id find another platform to work with.

And all because ebay create a process which necessitates none mainstream solutions have to be found to survive.

Shameful ebay.

[irt303]

Thanks for that!

I wasn't being quite accurate before. I do know how to send the bundle link to the buyer (simply copy & paste the URL into a message to the buyer). It's the other bit that presents a risk. Your suggestion is sound, but still not totally risk-free (but, then, what is?). On this occasion, I was able to make the purchase very soon after receiving the message with the link.

I did actually make a purchase last week of individually-listed items that a seller created a bundle listing for. The seller and I didn't pre-arrange a time between us (in fact, I didn't even know that they would do a new bundle listing; I merely suggested it as a possibility, then got a message with the link). I assume this seller was fast at listing, given how quickly they did the listing and sent me the link) - it takes me ages!

Another factor is that the seller, when doing the bundle listing, has to remember to end the individual listings, lest a different buyer purchases one or more of them.

The workaround is do-able (to varying degrees, dependent on the seller's willingness and ability), but wouldn't be necessary were it not for the 75p per listing buyer fee. I say 'listing" as opposed to "item" because, of course, a listing can contain multiple items, but I appreciate that the terminology is potentially confusing. Mentioning a listing fee will inevitably make people think of a fee at the seller's end, but saying "4% plus 75p per item" is also potentially misleading as a single listing can be for two or more items (and I'm not talking about muti-variation listings, etc.).

[fached]

I think this is a dreadful move and will move me and others in a similar position away from Ebay. I'm an infrequent private seller selling mainly used classic car parts. The idea that someone can buy a part from me, collect it and then I'll get paid 2 days later is horrendous. Open to abuse bordering on potential theft. Also the buyer simply has to claim they've not received the posted item and ill never gat paid. No thanks.

[vinylscot]

There is an easier way to ensure only the intended buyer can buy a "bundle".

Say you have a bundle which you have agreed to sell to a buyer for £30.00. List it at a silly high price, say £500.00, but allow offers, and tell the buyer you will accept an offer of £30.00 from him. Then be careful to only accept his offer.

There are other ways, such as making the listing title something personal, such as "Bundle for Buyer X only".

I'm sure other sellers already use other methods.

It's annoying that it needs to be done, but there are various ways.

[irt303]

Thanks, some great tips there, especially using a listing title unlikely to be stumbled upon by a different buyer (or, at least, a different buyer who would be interested in the items).

Ultimately, however, I agree with a45heaven. I suppose a lot of it comes down to how much time you have, and how proficient and quickly you can list. I'm reasonably proficient at the basics, but agonizingly slow, mainly due to perfectionism - a good quality for a seller up to a point - and the time it takes me to do the photos (take on phone, upload to Google Photos, log in to GP on laptop, download from GP onto laptop, upload from files to listing). I need to try adding the photos using the eBay app, since that would cut down on the time and steps necessary - but I hate using the app!

Sorry, I digress. Going back to my purchase, I did feel a little conflicted, as I was unsure about one or two items (and did tell the seller this). So, when I got the bundle listing link, I did feel a bit under pressure to buy. On the one hand, they had gone to the trouble to do this, but on the other, they hadn't asked me to confirm which items I definitely wanted, and they were, after all, chasing a sale (as any seller would).

Of course, I could have just left it, but the seller might then have thought that I was messing them around, and added me to their list of blocked buyers, a risk I didn't want to take, as they sell items I'm interested in, and at a reasonable price.

I know that I - like others - have moved away from the main topic (although all these things are connected, so tangents are nearly always inevitable), and I know that the OP has asked the mods to close the thread, so I shall take my leave.

[irt303]

Back again - said I was leaving, but then saw your latest post.

"This then allows you to service both purchases if someone does 'beat them to the draw'."

Sorry, that's the only bit of your post that I didn't understand - could you please expand on that?

If buyer B beats buyer A to the draw, buying one (or more) of the items that buyer A has asked the seller to include in a bundle listing, then how can both purchases be serviced? It might not even be "both purchases", as buyer A might decide not to proceed if one or more of the items they wanted has now been bought by buyer B.

Hope you can clear my confusion!

[ett1954]

"I suppose a lot of it comes down to how much time you have, and how proficient and quickly you can list." - The category and product type I sell usually ensures mature and honourable buyers where we trust each other.  This allows me to work with a basic template and use generic photographs - with three or four basic templates I can create a listing for most scenarios in less than 2 minutes and have done so with up to 250 items bundled into one listing.  I would also add the majority have been international sales with no issues whatsoever and with the added bonus that these often generate repeat sales as you become the seller to go to.  This is especially so if you are dealing with another business.

If a good sale required a little bit of extra work then so be it - that's the nature of any business.

[irt303]

Hi, looks like the mods either haven't seen your thread closure request, or have decided to ignore it, but I hope it stays open long enough for me to get a reply from ett1954 to my post #406.

Thanks for the additional tips.

Personally, I don't allow offers as I find that all a bit complicated and time-consuming, but I guess I could try it for a very specific situation like this, just not generally. I appreciate your helpful suggestion.

The above makes me sound like an active seller, but I'm on hiatus, partly because of personal circumstances, but also because I'm waiting to see how things develop with the BPF (I share other private sellers' disgust at the implication that buyers need to be 'protected' in transactions with private sellers - and eBay already has access to our bank accounts if they 'need' it) and the much-dreaded Simple Delivery.

I'm hoping that both changes turn out to be as disastrous for eBay as it looks like they will be for private sellers, and that the changes are swiftly revoked (with some nonsense about improving the community, because we know that eBay, in their corporate arrogance, are like a petulant teenager who cannot simply admit to a mistake and say sorry). I know that I'm far from alone in this, but I'm also aware that our desperate hopes will probably not be fulfilled.

I know that eBay doesn't care about me beyond how much money they can extract from me, but these changes have truly scuppered my plans to start selling again (and to step up my listing activity).

eBay has presumably done some strange mixture of crystal ball-gazing and calculations, and concluded that their revenue from sellers who stick with the platform will be worth the loss of revenue from those who leave. They might be in for a shock, and decide that they need to invest in a more accurate crystal ball! Who knows, they may even have the revelation that consulting with sellers, engaging with them, and assessing overall seller sentiment BEFORE introducing major changes is an idea with great merit...

[ett1954]

"This then allows you to service both purchases if someone does 'beat them to the draw'."

" ..... could you please expand on that?- I'll use the items I sell as a business as an example.

If a buyer is requesting say 25 specific issues of a particular aviation magazine.  In stock I may have hundreds of that specific title but maybe only one copy of some of the issues they required.  I first agree with the buyer that I will list as '25 random issues' of that magazine title but confirm by eBay message that I guarantee him or her will receive the specific issues they are looking for.

If someone were to purchase before the buyer (in reality this has never happened) then I would fulfill that order by simply sending that buyer 25 other issues (random as in the listing title).  The original listing can then be reactivated by adding the stock level back to one and the original buyer can then have another attempt to purchase.

[irt303]

Ah, I get you now, thanks for elaborating!

That could work for some items of mine (although I'd rather sell my magazines as entire job-lots), less so or not at all for others - not that I expect you to know what kind of items I sell (when I sell). 

There are some fantastic tips and nuggets of advice and wisdom on these boards. I always think that I'll remember them, but I rarely do! I ought to start copying and pasting the good stuff into a document for future reference, but at the moment (and for quite a while preceding) my feelings about eBay and the selling experience are so unfavourable that I don't know if I can be bothered. Having said that, I'm here posting on the boards, so it's not like I don't have the time.

I generally dislike change, and eBay is the only selling platform I have any real experience of - even then, I was still finding my feet. I really don't want to have to learn how to use a different platform, with no real guarantee that it would be worth it.

All my eggs are in one basket, and it looks unlikely that they'll even hatch!

[irt303]

Two minutes? I can only dream! You're clearly a lot more organised than I am - if you were to watch me do a listing, you'd be shaking your head in dismay! I've never even created a template, or used a pre-formatted one. I just do a very basic listing, nothing fancy, but focus on clear photos and accurate descriptions.

I'm a private seller, but I try to ensure a positive experience for buyers, so, like you, am generally prepared to go the extra mile for a good sale and a happy buyer. I agree with the somewhat contentious point made by others that some private sellers care more about their buyers than some business sellers do (borne out of my own experience as a buyer purchasing from both types of seller). It's a more personal 'connection', and the consequences of a bad sale are potentially far more damaging to a private seller than they are to a business seller with thousands of items (I acknowledge that not all business sellers have this much stock, and that there are cases where private sellers have more listings than some business sellers).

[goodibags]

In practice, if you ever have to customise a bundle of items for a specific buyer, it's extremely unlikely that another buyer out there will want the same thing. For example, even if they wanted the first 2 items in the list they won't want to be lumbered with another 5 or 6 they don't. I've done this with comics and it works.

I guess bundling listings would seem to be a good way to minimise the excessive new buyer transaction fee but it may take a while for buyers to get used to the idea of contacting a seller beforehand to request this. 

It'll mean greater communication both ways, certainly not a bad thing.

[irt303]

Hi, yes, I agree that this would be highly unlikely in reality. That was just me allowing my tendency to speculate to get the better of me!

This does bring me on to the flip side of bundling. Some sellers have suggested listing items (especially low-value ones) in a bundle to make a more appealing prospect for buyers. I can see the merit in this, but it does very much depend on the items.

Apart from things like CDs and DVDs ('standard' releases, not rare or collectors items) - which I would prefer to sell as job-lots anyway (I'd need to be near-immortal to sell them one by one), most of the low-value items I would like to sell are highly disparate, and would thus be extremely difficult (more likely impossible) to sell as a bundle.

Take, for example, a manual for an amplifier I no longer have (yes, I know, why would I have even kept the manual? Because, up until recently, I thought that I might be able to flog it on eBay for a few quid - but the BPF has put paid to that idea) - what could I bundle that with? The nearest 'match' would be other manuals - but the chances of someone wanting all of them are infinitesemally small.

As far as my low-value items go, considering the time and effort to list, pack and post compared with the small gains that I MIGHT make, I really would be better off donating, recycling or (last resort) throwing them away, and focussing on seller higher-value items. I'm currently in the fortunate position of not needing to sell items for a couple of quid (or even lots of quids) just to get by, although that could change, and so I hang on to them in case there are hard times ahead (as though it would make much difference - a small sale might allow me to eat for another day, but a hand-to-mouth existence like that is a highly depressing prospect).

The more I think about this, the more sympathy I have for (genuine) private sellers who sell mostly low-value items, and who need that money. They will feel truly shafted by eBay (if they don't already) once the BPF comes in. It looks more and more like a deliberate ploy to eliminate low-value sales from the platform for all but the fee-paying business sellers, and most of us private sellers are by now justifiably cynical regarding eBay's disingenuous reasons.

And don't even get me started on Simple Delivery!

[irt303]

Regarding your second paragraph, I agree that increased seller/buyer communication is a good thing.

Apart from the extra work involved, the other problem with bundling is that an item might be bought by a different buyer while negotiations are ongoing. The chances of this happening are increased if the buyer or seller (or both) have little time to spend on eBay.

Despite the above, however, bundling - either seller-initiated or at buyer's request - does look like the best workaround we have at the moment.

[goodibags]

In most cases it would probably be better for the seller to wait for a buyer to get in touch if they wanted multiple items for sale. I always offer to send items together and refund excess postage but this new 75p item charge will be something buyers will want to try and avoid.

Having said that I have in the past listed both bundles AND the same items individually, just in case. It's more work and you end up having to delete one listing when the other sells but if you have a collection of 4 or 5 of similar things (like Madonna cds) it probably makes sense to have them up for sale as one lot too.

Back in the days of 99p auctions I had a buyer bid on 4 or 5 different items including a 12-inch record and a toy car. Not the kind of thing you can send together. I wouldn't offer to bundle those kinds of things, unless it was clear there would have to be 2 separate parcels.

Ebay under-estimates the resourcefulness of its users. 'Bundling' is definitely the way to go. I'd expect more private sellers will be offering it in their item descriptions in future. Those that stay, at least. 🙂 

[maujohwai]

I have bundled small similar items I had listed individually, to make them cheaper because of postage, but I always delisted the individual items just in case!

[vinylscot]

That's a terrible idea.

Murphy's Law would very quickly come into effect here. Unless you have two of everything, do not list them separately and as a bundle. You will go to bed one night and wake up to two sales, having just sold one article twice. Do that a few times and it will really affect your account badly.

[paisleypaul]

This is - heavy - fees back by the back door.

I have near 2,00 feedback probably > 2,500 transactions and if we really needed  75p + 4% that would mean  a more than 1 in 25 failure rate - or that in 21 years ebay I had lost - in or out - more than 100 items. No m ore than ten, and getsd resolved by simple free postage certifcates from the Post Office in all but one case.

So maybe a 0.4 of 1% fee and no flat rate 75p , your £5 item would be £5.02 next month istead of £5.95.

Expecting my sales to fall off a cliff face and I will similarly be looking elsewhere.

[goodibags]

It depends on what you're selling. If it's old comics or vinyl records these things can easily take weeks or months to sell. It's very much a buyers' market. I tend to review prices regularly too to make sure they're competitive, not that it makes much difference. You can't persuade folks to buy what they don't want.

I'm not saying DO this, merely it's something that I have done in the past. And it can help to improve sales, assuming buyers are reluctant to ask.

There will almost certainly be an increase in demand for seller flexibility from next week, so it makes sense for them to be prepared.

[akemp1]

---

@paisleypaul wrote:

I have near 2,00 feedback probably > 2,500 transactions and if we really needed  75p + 4% that would mean  a more than 1 in 25 failure rate - or that in 21 years ebay I had lost - in or out - more than 100 items. No m ore than ten, and getsd resolved by simple free postage certifcates from the Post Office in all but one case.

So maybe a 0.4 of 1% fee and no flat rate 75p , your £5 item would be £5.02 next month istead of £5.95.

---

Exactly ebay to my knowledge have never had to 'step in' and refund a buyer on any of my nearly 25 years of sales with my money - let alone with their own money it just doesn't happen. The risk is with new seller accounts it's madness to say buyers need such expensive protection from established private sellers.

What's the point in me having 100.0% feedback not a single negative in thousands of transactions over decades if my listings are marked up the same as a scammer who has just created a false account?

Honestly maintaining this feedback has cost me money over the years refunding a few people when I'm unsure how valid their claims are but it's been a cost I was ok to bear alongside the seller fees.

I'm still hacked off with ebay for the buyer tax particularly because they are using 'protection' doublespeak so it's disappointment they are not acting with integrity and being clear with people this is a platform fee.