Simple Delivery, just a couple of questions. lol

[neovass0]

Hi,

Reluctantly, I will be ending my listings by the end of the week, but will probably be dragged kicking and screaming into simple delivery. Having created my first simple delivery listing as a test, just a couple of questions. I have thankfully excluded Evri from my listing by using the 'postage preferences' in my account.

Looking at the postage options in the listing once live, available to the buyer are two options, standard tracked and express tracked delivery. It doesn't specify what these are. Other than select parcel size, I was at no point able to select a royal mail postage service like previously. Is it, hopefully due to the compensation level, RM Tracked 48 and Tracked 24 ? Please not second class signed for, lol.

With the international shipping, i have not opted for international postage in the postage options tab, but confusingly the 'excluded locations' tab further down the page is still showing and there are no excluded locations filled in. Furthermore, does anyone know if you can include international postage for some listings, and opt out for others ? Previously, it was either a blanket yes or no.

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to reply and feel free to ask any other questions in the thread if you want to. Simple delivery, unfortunately is here.

Thanks

neovass0

[lucy_farmer]

'Are you suggesting members can not look at any of the positive benifits to sellers and buyers on ebay  or  must all posts be negative ?'

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Absolutely; all points of view are welcome 😊. But, as in the rest of online life, *negative* gets a much bigger outing.

 Like Crust Pilot and the like; they are 90% negative because (unless you are paid to) why make a song and dance about something that works/has worked the way it should have done and suits you?

As far as the ebay changes go: I started off trying to *not* to throw my toys out of the pram. Trying *not* to be an emotional teenager shouting 'you've only done this because you hate me!' And trying to see the possible benfits or good sides to the changes.

Or at the very least, trying to see the logical, business driven reasons why they've happened.

After some thinking time, I (and probably *loads* of others!) have decided we can live with the BPF. We can live with payment holds.

And we can deal with HMRC because that's the new money-laundering laws. No choice there.

And to be honest we're probably quite happy to see some non-genuine 'private' sellers have a real sh**-fit about how hard done by they are and now they'll actually have to *pay*,like proper businesses!

But Simple Delivery is just too much to swallow. And the way it's been sold or bullsh** spun to us is even worse.

S.D. isn't something you can just decide to 'live with'. (like the payment hold etc)  S.D. insists that you have to physically do things differently.... some of which are going to be extremely difficult or near impossible for some.  (smartphones, printers, drop-offs, collections, size of boxes, etc etc)

And now it appears that ebay are *not* taking a logical, business-like step to ensure that sellers can insure their items in the post.  That's crazy.

I'm dumping my idea of ebay being a logical, tech-led, Global business : they're starting to act like a tin-pot dictatorship.

[buffster1963]

I am very unlikely to ever use SD and have never used, or wanted to use, Evri. But out of curiosity decided to look up where my Evri drop offs are. There is a drop off ten minutes walk away but they do not print labels and i no longer have a printer. The nearest place that printed labels is a twenty minute drive ( would have to get hubby to take me) and all the comments said the printers are never working or they already have enough parcels. 

[dch2112011]

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@vinylscot wrote:

Not all post offices have drop-off points, as I'm sure you know.

Drop off points can be lockers, parcel post boxes, post offices and RM sorting points, 

None are signed or advertised and maybe that's the point, post offices should provide them even at the counter where no facilities to drop and go are provided but are biased towards 'selling postage' at the counter - might be worth asking the question of your local postmaster ?

I can also appreciate that sellers would want to pass their parcels to a human and receive a receipt. Otherwise, there is nothing to prove you actually dropped off the item. 

Maybe I am missing what purpose the receipt has under simple delivery  perhaps you could explain how you would use the receipt  to benefit you when using simple delivery ? 

By asking for a postal receipt you are employing the post office to take responsibility for the postage on the package which leaves you to pay for any shortfall .

In effect you are changing the contract from ebay and RM to you and the post office, therefore any shortfall identified by the post office becomes payable by you. 

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[dch2112011]

I think you have raised a valuable point regarding printers, in the not too distant past printers were a common accessory to pc's but with the advent of smart phones and the push for paperless transactions printers are less common especially for 'non business' users.

I wonder if the carriers will catch up with technology where automated self serve terminals will be installed where a customer scans the qr code and a self adhesive label with the QR code is printed - a bit like the car parking ticket machines that are cashless  - they could potentially be installed in many locations.

It does make me wonder when this type of system will come into existance - the carriers must be aware of this glaring shortfall.

In the meantime I wonder how many printers will be sold and whether the price of printers will suddenly go back up as prices have fallen drastically over recent years ?

[vinylscot]

With respect, your points about the PO receipt are utter nonsense.

If my buyer submits a INR claim, and I can not prove the item was ever entered into the Royal Mail network, do you honestly think eBay will meet the cost of the claim? Of course they won't. 

When a mail order company gives you a label for a return, you ask for a POA so you have proof you sent a package back to them. This is just the same. As the item is scanned when you get a POA, you now have confirmation that it has entered the RM Network. Simply dumping your parcel at a collection point doesn't give you that security.

You are in no way changing the terms of the contract by getting a POA. All you are doing is getting confirmation that you have performed your part of the contract.

[dch2112011]

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@vinylscot wrote:

With respect, your points about the PO receipt are utter nonsense.

Perhaps not so much nonsense as you think !

If my buyer submits a INR claim, and I can not prove the item was ever entered into the Royal Mail network, do you honestly think eBay will meet the cost of the claim? Of course they won't. 

Never said they would but neither would they on production of a post office receipt ! You can send them 100 copies of the receipt they still will only act on the SD tracking number to obtain the enhanced protection - It is SD that is being discussed isn't it ?

When a mail order company gives you a label for a return, you ask for a POA so you have proof you sent a package back to them. This is just the same. As the item is scanned when you get a POA, you now have confirmation that it has entered the RM Network. Simply dumping your parcel at a collection point doesn't give you that security.

not sure what you mean by poa ?  When we have mail order returns they pick up and take it away RM or other carrier - no post office -  often no label  or receipt - never a problem - simply rebox in original box pop the return sheet in the box - notify online   - collection label and scan by collector so we just hand it over or leave in porch for them !

Your statement is only true where the label is accepted by the post office which is what you are asking the post office to do when asking for a receipt - the post office contract with you to advise you by refusing to accept incorrectly applied postage and you  take responsibility for any  postal cost. - This is your contract !

If you employ the post office to check the weight and size and they sell you a different label this contract  negates the contract between ebay and RM and you 100% enter into a contract between yourself and the post office where you have to pay the post office for the new label - this is your choice but you will lose the enhanced SD protection and you will have to manually add the new tracking number -  the buyer will have their postage fees refunded and you will have paid the postage cost !

The Post office is a seperate company paid to sell postage and facilitate postal collections and delivery on behalf of Royal Mail - the tracking portal is RM's which the receipt and label reference which should be the same are automatically entered once scanned and at that point it enters RM's network ?

Only applies if the SD label is used in it's original format and the receipt reference is the same as the label reference  when relating to SD transactions - again it is SD that is being discussed ?

You are in no way changing the terms of the contract by getting a POA. All you are doing is getting confirmation that you have performed your part of the contract.

Incorrect you are employing the post office  as a seperate contract and if any changes are made by the post office, with your agreement by changing the label you are opting out of SD and the buyer wil be refunded for the postal cost and you pay the post office for the postage as a seperate transaction - this is your choice 

Again Why would you want to do that ?

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[theelench]

Not much good wondering if the technology will catch up or if the type of system you imagine will come into existence at some point in the (even near) future.

HOW does it work NOW is what private sellers need to know.

[vinylscot]

I think you need to have a wee lie down.

[dch2112011]

Take a look at what the post office says about printing labels - no where do they talk about postal receipts which are a seperate post office service - they even state give them the qr code - they will print the label - hand you the label to affix to the package -- then you hand it to them to post 

I can't help it if you do not understand the system and want to make up your own system - it's all on the post office website for anyone to read ! 

At a Customer Service Point (CSP)
If you buy postage online at send.royalmail.com, you can get the label printed when you drop off your parcel. Just take the QR code you receive on your phone to a Royal Mail Customer Service Point (CSP), usually at your local Delivery Office or Post Office branch. They’ll scan the QR code, print the label, which you can then fix to your parcel and drop off while you’re there*. There’s no additional charge once you’ve paid for the postage.

Find the nearest Customer Service Point or Post Office branch by visiting Services Near You.

[dch2112011]

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@theelench wrote:

Not much good wondering if the technology will catch up or if the type of system you imagine will come into existence at some point in the (even near) future.

HOW does it work NOW is what private sellers need to know.

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Apparently I am behind the times the post office already have the automated system !

How self service works
Our self-service machines mean you can just post and go. And you can use them to pay bills or even top up your mobile phone

They’re designed to be easy to use

Just follow the step-by-step instructions on screen. And if you do need a hand, we’ll be happy to help. Find a branch with a self-service machine

[dch2112011]

Apparently this is a private partnership which will include scanning of QR codes for retail partners trialled in January 2025 and due to be rolled out this spring ?  Hopefully this answers a lot of problems - but someone will see the negative in it - of that I m sure !

Kiosks Rolling Out Across the Nation

The nationwide rollout is set to begin in Spring 2025, with self-service kiosks being introduced in a select number of Post Office branches before expanding to more branches across the country. This partnership signifies a major milestone in both imageHOLDERS’ and the Post Office’s ongoing missions to modernize service delivery, enhance customer experiences, and meet the changing needs of today’s consumers.

“Post Office is committed to enhancing customer service across the network, working in partnership with our Postmasters and retail partners,” commented Neal Newbrook, Propositions Manager, Post Office.

“Introducing these new self-service kiosks will make it easier and more efficient for customers to access the Post Office mail products they require. We are excited to work with imageHOLDERS on this key project that will help postmasters and our retail partners meet evolving customer needs.”

[jma2815]

“Why are sellers giving an ebay simple delivery parcel to post office counter staff  to weigh or size - the label has been generated  ?  It has absolutely nothing to do with the post office they are merely acting as the collection point for RM which they are contracted to do”

In my remote Scottish village PO the postmistress absolutely won’t accept any parcel unless she’s weighed and measured it to make sure its got correct postage, whoever bought and wherever that label / QR came from. 

Once the QR code has been scanned and she has printed the label she won’t apply it if the parcel is too large/heavy. On Monday this happened with a label I’d bought and she kept the label behind the counter while I went home to pack the parcel smaller. Alternatively I could have bought a new label from her but I declined that option as I did not want a new tracking number.

I’m certain she would not have changed her approach to the situation if the parcel had been SD, as she had not been notified of any requirement to do so by The Post Office.  

[dch2112011]

You have a very unfortunate postmistress who is not keeping up with post office policy, as a guess she is confusing where she sells postage and is responsible for the weight and size of package if she applies the postage and could be penalised if checked by RM as incorrect -  (RM pay her for this service ) to  the less lucrative service of supplying a third party with a label or stamp or taking prelabelled / stamped post for collection.

Maybe she is just set in her ways and  hasn't bothered to catch up with the modern post office -

sadly someone will complain if she starts refusing to supply just labels, stamps or refuses to accept packages with labels purchased online and where will she be when the new self service kiosks are rolled out -I shudder to think 

[kath3735_wxmjn]

and like Horizon the sub post offices will be screwed over again!

[dch2112011]

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@kath3735_wxmjn wrote:

and like Horizon the sub post offices will be screwed over again!

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Are you suggesting that ebay had something to do with the faulty Horizon computer system ?  

I think that might be a little fanciful !

It seems that the claims regarding SD are getting more and more far fetched by the minute,  pointing out ebay's and the post offices procedures which are written in the public domain for discussion somehow brings the worst out in people.

[vinylscot]

I honestly can't follow your ludicrous outbursts on this thread.

Even if the PO had a fully functioning tracking system, which it doesn't, it's only human nature that people will want some concrete proof that they have entered an item into the network.

Dropping it off anywhere doesn't give you that reassurance.

We know that the package should be tracked at multiple points on its journey, but we also know that this does not always happen in practice, so the best we can do is to gather as much evidence as we can. That is not likely to change anytime soon.

I don't see any negatives in the PO improving its systems. I just don't trust that it has 100% foolproof systems yet (I've been let down by them too often over the years), so I'm going to get every extra help I can. I suspect many others will too.

[emw-designs]

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@dch2112011 wrote:

You have a very unfortunate postmistress who is not keeping up with post office policy, as a guess she is confusing where she sells postage and is responsible for the weight and size of package if she applies the postage and could be penalised if checked by RM as incorrect -  (RM pay her for this service ) to  the less lucrative service of supplying a third party with a label or stamp or taking prelabelled / stamped post for collection.

Maybe she is just set in her ways and  hasn't bothered to catch up with the modern post office -

sadly someone will complain if she starts refusing to supply just labels, stamps or refuses to accept packages with labels purchased online and where will she be when the new self service kiosks are rolled out -I shudder to think 

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I currently buy and print my postage labels from ebay (not simple delivery). I select the size and weight and then take them to the post office. They weigh them, measure them if in doubt about the size and scan the label. If it's too heavy or large for the postage paid they reject it because they are responsible for checking the size and weight when they accept it. They can be penalised by RM if they accept packages with the wrong postage on them.

If they accept the package they give me a receipt with the tracking number on. For 1st or 2nd class, the PO receipt is my only proof that I have posted the item and I would need it to make a claim if the package didn't arrive, as the only other time the package is scanned is on delivery. For RM24 or 48, I can also see in the tracking history that the package has been accepted by the PO.  As long as the package has been scanned at the PO,  if it doesn't arrive I can make a claim. If it's not scanned (which is what you're suggesting should happen), then I won't be able to claim for 1st or 2nd class, and maybe not for RM 24 or 48 (depending on whether it's scanned at the next point).

I'm not sure whether I could even claim for loss with RM 24 0r 48 if I didn't have the receipt to prove that I was the person who sent the package.

[dch2112011]

Yes that makes sense a postal receipt gives tracking reference as you described - that is a post office service and makes correct use of the service.

Once you use this service offered by the post office, they are responsible for the correct postal amount in that if RM check it and it is underweight /size then they will occur a penalty - RM pay the post office for these checks hence the penalty if it is wrong payments / charges. These are  identified back to the post office branch by the receipt.

. 

This is really designed for postage purchased and applied by the post office although it seems to be being used for online labels which according to the post office do not need checking, the free service offered is printing the label not applying it to a parcel.

With SD this service is unnecessary at the post office as it is not penalised if underweight / size,

It should be treated in the same way as account business post which also can be dropped at the post office, the post office get paid per sack or part of sack  collected - they are not responsible for the weight / size -

Weights / Sizes are checked at the sorting machines and a charge is made to the business account holder - not the post office - so any charges are for ebay - ebay can pass on the charge plus some if the seller chose the service weight and size, or as part of the enhanced protection swallow the charges if ebay made the size and weight estimate.

The question is whether the receipt gives any added protection - the answer is probably not from what I can make of it - the label is a business postal service which offers no recompense from RM to a business account holder (special terms may have been negotiated by ebay - who knows ? )

Under normal business terms ebay therefore pay for any lost or damaged items from the buyer protection fees by refunding the buyer (mbg) not deducting them from the seller proceeds.

If ebay calculate the wrong postal rate the seller does not pay the excess again funded from the buyer protection fees.

The ebay system generates the tracking number - a new label issued by the post office becomes an independant transaction cancelling the unused SD label and refunding the buyer so receipt or no receipt the seller pays the postage.

The receipt could give a seperate tracking number to add to the ebay system - it allows you to add a second tracking number which supercedes the SD tracking number.

The ebay system will at the moment penalise the seller metrics because it will identify the first tracking number as not delivered on time before it is cancelled and the seller will get the cheery please make sure you post on time reminder - not a good part of the system but then it is designed as being able to add the second tracking number to protect a replacement sent for damaged or lost goods !

So what does a receipt give you for SD ? possibly a scan which will be accepted as proof of it entering the RM system - it would be interesting to see if this is immediate or whether the tracking is updated later in the day as it enters sorting - I am unsure of this. 

But what it does do is changes the responsility for SD if the label is changed - effectively it cancels SD and the protections and leaves the seller paying for the postage 

This is how I see it reading the published terms from the Post Office, ebay and Royal Mail - I haven't looked at EVRI

On balance it seems that not using the post office 'checking service' is the best course of action - if dropped off at the post office it is almost certainly going to enter the RM system but of course there is always a risk - it would all depend on whether a post office scan saying received at post office enhances the protection or is ignored.

Certainly if the post office replace the label charging you it is not a good idea because the buyer will be refunded for the original SD label not you.

In reality SD is an agreement with RM and the tracking is activated once it starts it's journey at RM 

This is where it differs from normal Business account postage - with a business account the tracking is added as soon as the label is generated automatically - this is accepted by ebay as in the RM system because business account holders are vetted and authorised to act as post offices  including issuing their own postal receipts.

Under SD this happens but ebay seem to have added another layer where the tracking is only accepted when scanned by RM  - so even though the tracking is uploaded automatically for enhanced protection ebay do not count this and start when the package is actually scanned by RM

[*maetrix*]

Jeeeeeez....is there anybody on here who actually understands anything that is going on with these changes ?....i'm about as baffled as you can get.....give yourselves a round of applause ebay.

WHAT - A - TOTAL - EFFING - MESS.

[forestfeline62]

My partner and I don't own smart phones or printers so we are stuffed