'Simple Delivery' failed, now a test case - worried

[richardb196]

Private Seller here, I sold a gold sovereign for £590 on ebay and was forced to use "Simple Delivery" as you all know. Both ebay and RM tracking show it as delivered, RM say they left it in a safe place and uploaded a photo. Seller says package has gone "missing" and he will raise a case with ebay!

I see some help pages on ebay saying I am covered for the loss but another page says gold is in the excluded list for 'Simple Delivery' even though they do not offer any other postal service.

Who is going to end up eating the loss I wonder?

Cheers

Rich

[papso22]

The item in this case is reported missing, packaging doesn't come into it.

[dancewithadingo]

Good Morning

That's most encouraging to hear and as I suspected would happen and mentioned in an earlier reply I made.  Have you been back in touch with your buyer and asked the questions I suggested. If so what was his response?

Keep us informed.

[lucy_farmer]

So far so good ; this is quite encouraging 😊

 I'm hoping that the 'definitve' answer from kat@ebay  has been changed!

[*vyolla*]

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@richardb196 wrote:

ebay CS have emailed me -

"I have reviewed the details and I would like to share that in simple delivery eBay provide full protection to the sellers as well as the buyers. If any item is shipped via simple delivery and anything goes wrong with the item in transit like item the item is lost or damaged, then ask the buyer to file a claim on eBay and eBay will take care of it we will refund the buyer, and you can keep the amount paid by the buyer and this will not cause any impact on your account. So be assured, you will be fully covered by eBay"

Sounds good but the funds are still pending in my account waiting for the case raised by the 'buyer' to be closed.

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Sounds positive, but I'm not sure why the case is still open then.

Have you stated in the case that the package was sent using an eBay Simple Delivery label, tracking shows as delivered (date)?

[papso22]

Perhaps it's like GSP, where ebay freeze funds even when the issue obviously occurred after the hub, and only releases them when they close the case with a refund?

[*vyolla*]

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@papso22 wrote:

Perhaps it's like GSP, where ebay freeze funds even when the issue obviously occurred after the hub, and only releases them when they close the case with a refund?

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Hopefully.

I believe that top dollar cases are given a little more human attention than most too.

[richardb196]

I asked the buyer if the other packages in the photo were 'missing' and he claimed the two small one were gone and only the big box remained. I suggested filing a police report because the theft of £600 item from your doorstep is not a trivial matter but he showed no inclination to do so. 

I have pulled all my listings from ebay I will not sell anything until I can choose my own shipping service and set my own coverage level.

As many of you probably know if you list an item at £751.00 the postage options open up and you can choose RM special delivery, however basic coverage with special delivery is limited to £750,  when on the RM site you can up the coverage and pay a bit more, not sure if ebay gives the same flexibility.

[inpoughkeepsie]

I mentioned this in another post where someone had sold some bottles that arrived broken. ebay paid the buyer for the damages and the seller also got to keep his money. There would therefore no reason why someone could sell £4’s worth of bottles to his mate for £400, his mate then smashing the items upon arrival and claiming the £400, everyones a winner except ebay. ebay would not be able to stand the cost of this occurring more and more frequently before pulling the plug.

[papso22]

That is weird buyer behaviour.

I wonder if ebay will insist on an Action Fraud number before doing the refund?

[roger_roger_over_and_nowt]

"I have pulled all my listings from ebay I will not sell anything until I can choose my own shipping service and set my own coverage level."

Sadly,Ebays MBG would still be on the buyers side to win a SNAD claim.

[j.p.greenwood]

That's why I'm waiting to see a 'definitive' statement from E-Bay.

There are organised fraud gangs rampant in certain quarters and although many people here will scoff and say "Don't be silly", they have the logistics capability to run millions in 'fake losses' through 'damage in transit' and 'stolen from doorstep' scams in a very very short period of time.

While I'm not on FB or any of the Social Media services, I've read there's 'shoplifting to order' gangs fairly easily identified there if you go looking, they'd see this as a golden payday.

[*vyolla*]

I can't see how this is any different to any other INR claim that has a tracking number showing delivery though.

Just because it's eBay's new Simple Delivery nothing has radically changed with the process.

In the past, if a tracking number shows delivery then the seller wins the INR. In scenarios like this, where the package has been left outside, the buyer can appeal to eBay and they may find in their favour and refund from their own coffers. Or, if the buyer issues a not received chargeback after losing the INR then eBay will also refund from their own coffers.

I do agree that sending it RM Special Delivery would've prevented this from happening with this sale. 

I think that I might Google the buyers RM depot and would just let them know that he's claiming not received. 

[theelench]

I can't remember if it was on this thread or another that I said ebay's guarantee that once in their system would compensate for loss or damage was only a short-term sweetener to get sellers to use it and that it wouldn't last long.

Every crooked seller would be all over it like a rash and the guarantee would disappear as ebay's pay-outs mounted.

Do they have a Plan B for when that happens?  Or will sellers find that the T&Cs have quietly been changed only when their gold coin or rare table lamp has gone missing or been smashed ?  It might be worth reporting to the police, the ombudsman or the FCA for higher value goods, but for lower value items ?

If something sounds like it's too good to be true  --  It usually is and in duplicitous ebay's case, it invariably is.

Why else are we still talking about what exactly are the T&Cs and what is or is not covered weeks into SD creeping across the site. 

[dancewithadingo]

Good Morning Richard

Thank you for the reply. Based on what you have told me I don't believe a word that your buyer has said.  It is self evident that someone who has items stolen and doesn't report the theft to the Police is either a fool or not to be believed.

If the so called thief took two then for heaven's sake he would have pinched the third larger package at the same time.  Your buyer is not very good at this.  Personally I would identify his local main Police Station and message him telling him that as he has failed to report the theft you have done it for him and mention the address of the station.  This hopefully would at least give him sleepless nights. 

Good luck with your case. I am confident that it will be resolved fairly soon in your favour and the money released.

Two final things,although you are not currently selling anything then put this person on your blocked list and keep an eye on his sales just in case you spot your coin being offered for sale.

[j.p.greenwood]

You're wrong.

The reason you're wrong is if an item is left on my doorstep and stolen from there, I never had the item in my possession, therefore legally I never had 'good title', therefore I have no legal standing to make a theft report to the police.

I realise reading this you'll possibly say I'm nit picking, but in law the devil is in the details and understanding laws regarding ownership and when 'good title' passes from seller to buyer is important.

[dancewithadingo]

Strewth  you are nit picking.  I am putting aside the finer details of the law and looking at the overall picture. 

[papso22]

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@j.p.greenwood wrote:

You're wrong.

The reason you're wrong is if an item is left on my doorstep and stolen from there, I never had the item in my possession, therefore legally I never had 'good title', therefore I have no legal standing to make a theft report to the police.

I realise reading this you'll possibly say I'm nit picking, but in law the devil is in the details and understanding laws regarding ownership and when 'good title' passes from seller to buyer is important.

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Could you reference your legal source?

[j.p.greenwood]

I'm sure you have the wherewithal to do your own research if you'd like to challenge my statement and the basis on which you're doing so.

[vinylscot]

So, if someone wants to disagree with your bald statement, they need to back it up with legal sources, etc., yet you, who made the rather tenuous claim, don't need to do so?

Is that how it works?

[honeymonster007]

Good title or not, if someone had opened my side gate and lifted 2 parcels I'd be phoning the police