'Simple Delivery' failed, now a test case - worried

[richardb196]

Private Seller here, I sold a gold sovereign for £590 on ebay and was forced to use "Simple Delivery" as you all know. Both ebay and RM tracking show it as delivered, RM say they left it in a safe place and uploaded a photo. Seller says package has gone "missing" and he will raise a case with ebay!

I see some help pages on ebay saying I am covered for the loss but another page says gold is in the excluded list for 'Simple Delivery' even though they do not offer any other postal service.

Who is going to end up eating the loss I wonder?

Cheers

Rich

[department28]

'eBay is set up in such a way that someone can shell out £600 on a coin then claim it was missing in order to get a refund and ultimately end up with a free coin. Be honest - who hasn't been tempted to try it? Really?'

Perhaps I am naive to assume the majority of people wouldn't be tempted to do this? It would never cross my mind to contemplate this sort of despicable fiddle. Unfortunately, it is the dishonest, unscrupulous minority that spoils things for the rest of us...

[richardb196]

Here is the photo RM uploaded to show the item was delivered to a 'safe place'.

My package is the manilla padded envelope with  the sellotaped address label behind the small package wrapped in black.

Buyer claims he did not ask for 'safe place' delivery, also does not know why item was not put through the letterbox! I have asked if he has the smaller item and the large box shown in the picture or have they gone 'missing' as well.

Still don't know if my item is covered under term of 'Simple Delivery' and it's impossible to find out, cannot communicate with ebay CS in any meaningful way.

Buyer has opened a 'item not received' case. The only options I get are 'update tracking' 'refund' and 'send message to buyer'. I can see no way of interacting with ebay to give them my information and find out if I will be compensated.

I will NOT voluntarily refund but of course I cannot stop ebay taking the money that is still 'pending' in my balance.

Like many of you my first thought is that there is nothing stopping the buyer grabbing the item and claiming it has gone missing, it's an open goal for fraud.

cheers

Rich

[mackingcrazy]

I would never under any circumstance send anything of value with simple delivery, I would use my own courier or special delivery. I sounds like you have been scammed unfortunately, always select custom delivery on your listings on anything of value. 

[richardb196]

I have never seen custom delivery as a option on any of my ebay listings, also you can't go outside of ebay and arrange your own delivery because it would not show up on ebay tracking and the item would never show as delivered and the money would not tbe released.

[honeymonster007]

Be interesting to know if the package in black went missing as well. If it was an opportunist they would have taken both of them.

Think you should  be ok with INR as the pic clearly shows the coin delivered.

Cant figure out why someone would buy something worth £600 and not be in to receive it. 

Might be worth mentioning to the buyer to involve the police, as the coin might have some kind of serial  number on it and see how they react.

[tressygirl]

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@richardb196 wrote:

I have never seen custom delivery as a option on any of my ebay listings, also you can't go outside of ebay and arrange your own delivery because it would not show up on ebay tracking and the item would never show as delivered and the money would not tbe released.

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When you say you have never seen Custom postage on any of your listings, Simple Delivery started their rollout for Private sellers  less than 2 months ago,  April 15th, so as you were selling before this date you could always have selected your postal service / price so, Custom Postage.

You may have been one of the (un) lucky ones,  and had SD on your items soon after the first rollout,  April 15th and therefore,  no Custom Postage for you. 😪

Not true though that money is not released if SD is not used,  it just takes longer, a 14 day hold is placed before that payout is released.

@richardb196 

[xyz307xyz]

My view, piecing together various fragments of ebay published text is.

For such an item:

You could list it [with Simple Delivery mandated] selecting Seller Pays postage.

When it sells, ebay give you a Simple Delivery label.

You arrange your own postage e.g. Special Delivery and ignore the Simple Delivery label

You claim the cost of the Simple Delivery label back. On any questions then/later from ebay asking why you didn't use the Simple Delivery label, you say "Item is on the -The following items aren't allowed to be posted with Simple Delivery- list".

Your payment will eventually be paid out without tracking, probably after 14 days if no case or any other hold.

If a buyer raised an item not received case - enter the Special Delivery tracking number in messages (or if allowed in a tracking number box), once/if delivered. I suggest also trying to ask customer services to change/register the new tracking number (if they can).

It would be nice if ebay had a page with their version of the above or their alternative recommendation.

[xyz307xyz]

It says you can send Glass here:
https://help.royalmail.com/personal/s/article/Labels-and-packaging-guidelines-tips

Strangely it doesn't mention write "“FRAGILE HANDLE WITH CARE” in capital letters on the cover or envelope above the address" which is mentioned on
https://www.royalmail.com/retail-compensation-policy-damage
I couldn't immediately see any specific statement there that damage to glass would not be compensated [providing you followed the instructions in the first link].

If you know a service which will definitely cover your glass items for damage, then you could send them as I explain in #27 and state the reason as Evri say
"You can send these items with us, but we can't provide cover or compensation for them.-Glass items or fragile items that contain glass parts".
For that one item you could raise the price to £750.01 to avoid mandatory Simple Delivery. (I expect you already knew that!)

[4_bathrooms]

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@xyz307xyz wrote:

If a buyer raised an item not received case - enter the Special Delivery tracking number in messages (or if allowed in a tracking number box), once/if delivered. I suggest also trying to ask customer services to change/register the new tracking number (if they can).

 This is something I'm genuinely curious about. If a private seller chooses the "seller pays" option for the postage then elects not to use the "Simple" Delivery label are they still able to upload tracking for the label they did use?

[xyz307xyz]

I've not tried it - from other people's messages it seems it can't be changed generally e.g. on the order. I don't know if you get another chance to enter it on a case; or even if customer services can change it.  I think on the latter I've heard both "yes" customer services have done it; and customer services saying "no" we can't.

In normal circumstances (i.e. not just talking about ebay) you would "hope" that a dispute of £500 would involve a human looking at all the available info - including a different tracking number in the notes. But I don't know how the ebay AI/decision making/dispute handling etc. works.

[4_bathrooms]

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@richardb196 wrote:

Private Seller here, I sold a gold sovereign for £590 on ebay and was forced to use "Simple Delivery" as you all know.

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Here's the bad news from the prohibited item list found on eBay's "Simple" Delivery policy page:

"Valuables, such as jewellery, watches, and precious metals, including, but not limited to, jewels, watches, gems, precious metals, real pearls, silver, gold"

That is seemingly an easy get out clause for eBay. However, if eBay does end up holding you responsible for refunding the buyer and the matter ends up going to the Financial Ombudsman Service I really can't see how eBay would have a leg to stand on. The FAQs on eBay's own guidance page state that "Simple" Delivery is optional for "Coins"; if there was no option to opt-out their own published guidance is incorrect. Even if the option to opt-out was there the fact that eBay automatically enrolled the item into SD would probably put eBay on dicey legal ground where a private seller is concerned.  

I'll be watching this thread with interest.

[department28]

This situation where some listings have been switched over to Simple Delivery, and some haven't, has just added to the confusion.

Custom delivery is still available for some sellers, but you have to click on the 'Switch to advanced options' link. See attached image.

[dancewithadingo]

Good Afternoon

Having heard back from your buyer this is a good opportunity for you to send a follow up and ask him when he reported the theft to the Police.at which Police Station and can you have the crime number to pass onto Royal Mail's Special Investigation Team.

Remind him again that they would like to speak to him and you know that he won't mind you passing on his details to them to enable a visit to be made and a statement taken.

Ask him again if the other two packages were taken at the same time.  Tell him that you know that he won't mind the steps you are undertaking as he needs to receive what he bought and you will make every effort to prevent being out of pocket. 

Finally check his feedback paying close attention to that received.

. 

Good luck

PS  Once he receives this message from you I wouldn't be surprised if he discovers a neighbour took the packages in for him.

[lucy_farmer]

'This is something I'm genuinely curious about. If a private seller chooses the "seller pays" option for the postage then elects not to use the "Simple" Delivery label are they still able to upload tracking for the label they did use?'

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So am I ,   never been able to find a definitive on this...

'I'll be watching this thread with interest'

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So will I 😶

[*vyolla*]

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@richardb196 wrote:

Here is the photo RM uploaded to show the item was delivered to a 'safe place'.

My package is the manilla padded envelope with  the sellotaped address label behind the small package wrapped in black.

Buyer claims he did not ask for 'safe place' delivery, also does not know why item was not put through the letterbox! I have asked if he has the smaller item and the large box shown in the picture or have they gone 'missing' as well.

Still don't know if my item is covered under term of 'Simple Delivery' and it's impossible to find out, cannot communicate with ebay CS in any meaningful way.

Buyer has opened a 'item not received' case. The only options I get are 'update tracking' 'refund' and 'send message to buyer'. I can see no way of interacting with ebay to give them my information and find out if I will be compensated.

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It's vital to keep things simple now. Add a message to the claim stating that 'tracking number xxxxxx shows delivery on (date)' and then contact eBay and state that the tracking number shows delivery on (date) and that you used a Simple Delivery label which means that eBay are responsible for any loss anyway.

I’ve found that the easiest route to contact eBay Customer Services is via the link below where you can request a call back:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/eua?id=5275&mkevt=1&mkpid

Pop back and let us know what they say.

[ruby*ryan]

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@lucy_farmer wrote:

'This is something I'm genuinely curious about. If a private seller chooses the "seller pays" option for the postage then elects not to use the "Simple" Delivery label are they still able to upload tracking for the label they did use?'

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So am I ,   never been able to find a definitive on this...

'I'll be watching this thread with interest'

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So will I 😶

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This morning I had 2 SD parcels to go to the same buyer. I did debate sending them together on the one label (they would still have been within size/weight), but I was wondering if I could add the tracking number of the used label to the item that I wouldn't be using the label for.
There was nothing on the drop down next to the item, so I tried the 'Postage' button, this gave me a couple of choices, including 'add tracking'.
So I selected that, and got the 'we've looked everywhere' page, blaming a problem with their servers - but only for this issue - everything else I tried on the site was working perfectly.

So I would be inclined to say, no, you can't add tracking. (I will try that button again next time I get a sale, and see if it's still blamed on the server, or what shows if it's not SD.)

[vinylscot]

Under SD, you can't add your own tracking number when sending items, because there is already a tracking number assigned to that transaction. Whether you use it or not is up to you, but, until it expires, it could still be used, so they don't allow you to over-write with your own details.

I would imagine there must be some way, when it comes to returns/INRs, but I can't see eBay making it easy for you.

In this instance, I think the buyer has a pretty good chance of winning, as that certainly doesn't look much like "a safe place", particularly if it has not been designated as such by the buyer. Even if eBay backs up the seller, I'm sure the buyer's payment provider would easily win a chargeback. It will be interesting to see what eBay does THEN - I suspect that's when they will point out that it should never have been sent by SD in the first place. (we've all seen the exclusion rates - do we need to query eBay EVERY SINGLE TIME we want to send something, just to get their specific written advice? I can imagine that becoming a little onerous, but I can also see it may be the only way forward.)

[richardb196]

ebay CS have emailed me -

"I have reviewed the details and I would like to share that in simple delivery eBay provide full protection to the sellers as well as the buyers. If any item is shipped via simple delivery and anything goes wrong with the item in transit like item the item is lost or damaged, then ask the buyer to file a claim on eBay and eBay will take care of it we will refund the buyer, and you can keep the amount paid by the buyer and this will not cause any impact on your account. So be assured, you will be fully covered by eBay"

Sounds good but the funds are still pending in my account waiting for the case raised by the 'buyer' to be closed.

[papso22]

That's encouraging.   The ongoing hold is normal.

[j.p.greenwood]

No mention of the items needing to adhere to the couriers terms and conditions?

What if it's not packed properly for example, or, as in your case an item that may be excluded from compensation in the event of a claim.

If and for me this is still a big if, it really is E-Bay taking responsibility for the packages and EVERYTHING is covered in transit, this could become a 'porch pirates party' very very quickly as the fraud possibilites are huge.