Simple Delivery - case closed in my favour now buyer opens a return request HELP!!

Hi, I've been selling for years so thought I'd come across everything until this issue with 'Simple Delivery'  PLEASE HELP!

Sold an expensive CD and buyer says packaging was empty when delivered and so opened an 'item not received' case.  I used a proper proper CD packaging - the sort with the internal flaps) photo shows end completely open yet adhesive strip it still intact so I find it impossible to believe that it 'fell out' so believe the buyer is trying it on.  As I used Simple Delivery Ebay immediately found in my favour and closed the case.  I expected this meant the buyer was getting refunded by Ebay??? Now they say that Ebay closed the case but they did not get refunded and they have now opened an 'item defective or parts missing' claim and I am being told to choose between return and refund or immediate refund without return.  What am I supposed to do now?  Do I ask buyer to return the empty box (which I will have to pay postage for) and them claim to Ebay that buyer did not return the CD???  I'd really appreciate some help here, thanks in advance.

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Simple Delivery - case closed in my favour now buyer opens a return request HELP!!

We're seeing instances on here of items being tampered with and/or stolen in transit so it's not necessarily the buyer trying it on. 

 

Had they used "Item damaged" as the reason for the return, which in a way it was as the packaging was damaged in transit, ebay would have issued the refund themselves and you'd have kept payment.

 

Now, if you want to claim compensation from the courier you should get the packaging back.    Or just refund without return to save on postage.    Bear in mind, couriers rarely pay out any realistic compensation.

 

 

Message 2 of 20
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Simple Delivery - case closed in my favour now buyer opens a return request HELP!!

The first case was item not received which ebay found in my favour - I thought the whole point of Simple Delivery Seller Protection is that Ebay will refund the buyer? Now the 2nd case the buyer has opened is item defective or not as stated - what will happen if I accept the return then state the buyer sent an empty box back?  What is the point of Simple Delivery seller protection if the buyer can just try again and open a 2nd case?

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Simple Delivery - case closed in my favour now buyer opens a return request HELP!!

SD only covers  for loss or damage in transit.    The "not received" case failed because the tracking showed that the package had been delivered.    I would think the buyer is covered as far as ebay is concerned because they have said there are parts missing.

 

If you can persuade the buyer to contact ebay callback tomorrow morning and ask them to change the reason to "Item damaged" you'd be OK.   If they're amenable to that send them this link:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/eua?id=5275&mkevt=1&mkpid

 

 

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Simple Delivery - case closed in my favour now buyer opens a return request HELP!!

Hi @ziggy798 

Adding to what @**peaseblossom**  has said.... You could try asking the buyer to close the "not as described case" and ask them to open an "arrived damage case". You won the "not received" case because it is tracked as delivered, no human involvement.

Or you could get a call back from CS tomorrow morning, hopefully speak to someone in Ireland who can understand that whilst the buyer may not be a scammer, they are floundering because there is no obvious box to tick for "some scumbag opened my envelope and nicked the contents before it got to me".

I don't think you would be able to take it up with the delivery company because firstly the customer bought the label, but also because the agreement is with eBay to sort it out.

Neither of you should be out of pocket on this.

let us know how you get on.

Message 5 of 20
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Simple Delivery - case closed in my favour now buyer opens a return request HELP!!

Hi @suelel1968  "item damaged" is also a return (even though ebay don't require the item to be sent back)  so if the buyer closed their current case they wouldn't be able to open another one.   The buyer needs to ask ebay to change the reason.    The seller can't do that.

 

 

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Simple Delivery - case closed in my favour now buyer opens a return request HELP!!


@**peaseblossom** wrote:

 

Now, if you want to claim compensation from the courier you should get the packaging back.    Or just refund without return to save on postage.    Bear in mind, couriers rarely pay out any realistic compensation.

 

 


It was a Simple Delivery label so the OP doesn't have a contract with the carrier they can claim any compensation against.

Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Message 7 of 20
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Simple Delivery - case closed in my favour now buyer opens a return request HELP!!


@suelel1968 wrote:

Hi @ziggy798 

Adding to what @**peaseblossom**  has said.... You could try asking the buyer to close the "not as described case" and ask them to open an "arrived damage case".


This won't work either; a buyer can only open one INAD case. 

Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Message 8 of 20
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Simple Delivery - case closed in my favour now buyer opens a return request HELP!!


@ziggy798 wrote:

What am I supposed to do now?  Do I ask buyer to return the empty box (which I will have to pay postage for) and them claim to Ebay that buyer did not return the CD??? 


Yes, but here is how you need to do it (you need to follow these steps in order):

 

  1. Pay for a return label.
  2. When you receive the empty packaging back file a report with Action Fraud. They're unlikely to actually do anything - they're just a reporting service - but they will give you a reference number and report.
  3. In the eBay return case there will be a link that states "Report a problem". You need to click that link and select the most appropriate reason for filing the report.
  4. In your report mention that you have filed a report with Action Fraud providing the reference number AF gave you in #2 and attach the report they gave you.

 

Please let us know how you get on.

Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Message 9 of 20
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Simple Delivery - case closed in my favour now buyer opens a return request HELP!!

So many conflicting ideas, but thank you everyone who is trying to help 🙂  Why does Ebay have to make everything so hard?  Any other opinions greatly received, thanks

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Simple Delivery - case closed in my favour now buyer opens a return request HELP!!

Something you need to understand about "item not as described" cases is they have a time limit. Once a buyer opens one the seller has three days - excluding Sundays and Bank Holidays - to either provide a return label, issue a full refund or offer a partial refund. Any offer of a partial refund can be rejected by the buyer; if they do the clock is still ticking. On the third day the buyer can "ask eBay to step in" and if the seller has not provided a return label they will be guaranteed a full refund under eBay's Money Back Guarantee at the seller's expense (it is an automated process).

 

Your only real options are to do as I advised or convince an eBay customer service representative that the issue is not your fault so they can close the case and refund the buyer at eBay's expense. However, eBay's customer service representatives are notorious for telling callers what they want to hear in order to get them off the phone even giving wholly incorrect advice in the process. Even if the rep tells you they're going to close the case and you won't be held liable for the refund you can't believe them unless they confirm that in writing and/or they actually do it before the third day where the buyer can ask eBay to step in.

 

There is one thing I'm curious about: have you checked the tracking on Royal Mail's website? Tracked 24 & Tracked 48 provide a photo on delivery - does the package appear to have been tampered with in the photo taken by Royal Mail? A "seasoned" scammer would have known an "item not received" case was doomed to fail due to the tracking. Your buyer might be trying it on or it might be a case of theft in transit - the picture taken by the postie (or the lack of one) might clear things up a bit. 

Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Message 11 of 20
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Simple Delivery - case closed in my favour now buyer opens a return request HELP!!

Yet another example of how the seller protection that SD purports to offer is only there if the buyer selects the 'right' reason for opening a case.

 

Some buyers might be amenable to a polite request from the seller to change the reason, but I can see others reacting badly to that (being suspicious of the seller's motives, not being prepared to make the effort, etc.). Disappointed buyers are only interested in getting their money back, and many won't care whether it comes from eBay or out of the seller's much shallower pocket. Some may even deliberately select a 'wrong' reason out of spite.

 

eBay could, of course, offer the buyer some guidance on selecting the most appropriate reason, but it's obvious why they don't.

 

Private selling on eBay just seems to get riskier and riskier.

Message 12 of 20
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Simple Delivery - case closed in my favour now buyer opens a return request HELP!!

From what iv'e read the only time a buyer can change their reason for a claim is from not received to not as described or has something changed ?.

Message 13 of 20
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Simple Delivery - case closed in my favour now buyer opens a return request HELP!!


@retroman303 wrote:

Yet another example of how the seller protection that SD purports to offer is only there if the buyer selects the 'right' reason for opening a case.

 


I think when a buyer opens an INR case but there is tracking indicating delivery - either uploaded to eBay or via Simple Delivery - eBay should notify the buyer that "Tracking indicates your item was delivered on <date>." The buyer should then be given the option of abandoning the process or reporting receipt of an empty package. Where Simple Delivery is concerned the "empty package" option would be treated the same as a "Received damaged" INAD claim (i.e. treated as being the eBay-employed carrier's fault).

 

 


@retroman303 wrote:

 

Some buyers might be amenable to a polite request from the seller to change the reason


Once a buyer opens an INAD case the reason they selected for opening it cannot be changed. For obvious reasons a buyer cannot open a second INAD case once a previous one has been closed; their only recourse after that is to file a dispute (chargeback) with their payment provider.

Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Message 14 of 20
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Simple Delivery - case closed in my favour now buyer opens a return request HELP!!


@roger_roger_over_and_nowt wrote:

From what iv'e read the only time a buyer can change their reason for a claim is from not received to not as described or has something changed ?.


INR and INAD are separate claims; an INR claim cannot be changed to an INAD claim.

Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Message 15 of 20
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Simple Delivery - case closed in my favour now buyer opens a return request HELP!!


@4_bathrooms wrote:


I think when a buyer opens an INR case but there is tracking indicating delivery - either uploaded to eBay or via Simple Delivery - eBay should notify the buyer that "Tracking indicates your item was delivered on <date>." The buyer should then be given the option of abandoning the process or reporting receipt of an empty package

 

 



I should have said "reporting receipt of a package that appeared to have been opened or tampered with".

Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Message 16 of 20
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Simple Delivery - case closed in my favour now buyer opens a return request HELP!!

Ridiculous suggestions there - way too sensible for eBay to adopt!

 

But seriously, yes, that would make sense, and it's precisely the kind of thing I meant by eBay offering guidance to the buyer (not merely on a help page, but during the actual process of opening a case).

 

Apologies for my 'knowledge gap' about INAD cases - I was going on what previous posters had said. I was thinking more of the buyer agreeing to a seller request to change the case type (from INR to 'Received damaged/missing' - or whatever the category is called), rather than a request to change the INAD reason (which, as you say, cannot be done) - but that didn't come across very clearly. I admit to not being very familiar with the various case types - as a buyer, on the rare occasion I need to open a case it's a straight INR or INAD, and, as a seller, I don't think I've ever had to deal with one (tempting fate there). I remember one disastrous sale when I was a real newbie (it was entirely my fault), but even then, I was lucky to have a really nice, sympathetic buyer. Maybe he didn't know about opening cases, or, more likely, he took pity on me as he could see I was genuinely remorseful and wanted to make things right, but whatever, I'm certain that it was 'settled out of court', so to speak.

 

eBay could - should - also make clear the difference between INR and 'Received missing' (I'm annoyed that I don't know the exact wording). The latter sounds self-contradictory, but as we know, INR means that the buyer didn't receive anything at all, not even an empty package, whereas the other means that a package was received, but with the contents missing in whole or in part. eBay should make the distinction clearer, as I think many members are unclear on it, which leads to avoidable problems (usually for the seller). But, of course, eBay could be clearer on a whole bunch of things.

 

Wow, all those words, and I've not really said anything (apart from "I think that would be a great idea"). I should be a presenter on a shopping channel.

 

Thanks for putting me right, anyhow. I hate the thought of someone acting on my (or another's) incorrect information or bad advice.

 

So, we both agree that eBay could, and should, do more to guide the buyer through the case-opening process. What do you think is the reason why they don't? Do you see it as part of eBay's tendency to under-explain (or to not explain at all) - not out of malice, but out of laziness - or do you hold the more cynical view that it's deliberate, since the fewer refunds eBay has to make, the better for them (although, ultimately, this is an incredibly poor customer-retention strategy)? 

Message 17 of 20
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Simple Delivery - case closed in my favour now buyer opens a return request HELP!!

Again, thanks for all the advice.  I called customer services this morning and as expected got a script reader.  Their first suggestion was to get the buyer to call ebay.  I have zero confidence in this option as really if you are a buyer why would you bother, just wait for the refund. So I am going with the second suggestion of paying for a return label and they will return an empty box.

Should I ask the buyer to return the packaging inside new packaging so I can film myself opening it?  Anything else I should be aware of when I receive it back?  I have checked the delivery photo from Royal Mail but that didn't help as you can only see a small bit of the box as another parcel was delivered along with it and is partially covering it.  I will be taking the advice I got here of reporting to Action Fraud and then calling Ebay again to see my next steps.

I've been a member since 2003 and honestly have been lucky that I've never had a situation like this before and would usually just refund as I only sell small value stuff but this is such a ridiculous situation.

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Simple Delivery - case closed in my favour now buyer opens a return request HELP!!


@ziggy798 wrote:

 

Should I ask the buyer to return the packaging inside new packaging so I can film myself opening it? 


There's no point filming anything; you just need to wait until you receive whatever the buyer sends back.

 

 


@ziggy798 wrote:

Anything else I should be aware of when I receive it back?


Once the return tracking indicates the item has been delivered another three day countdown starts. If you haven't issued a refund or reported a problem by then the buyer is guaranteed a full refund at your expense should they ask eBay to step in (again, it's an automated process). When you receive the empty package back you need to file the report with Action Fraud then click the "Report a problem" link in the case. The "Report a problem" link stops the automated process and opens a new case in its place allowing you to provide your evidence - i.e. the Action Fraud reference number - in order to compel eBay to protect you from becoming a victim of fraud.

Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Message 19 of 20
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Simple Delivery - case closed in my favour now buyer opens a return request HELP!!

Thanks for all the advice, i will keep you posted on the outcome

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