Should I be suspicious here?

[sunday_mornin]

I’m selling a couple of guitars on here, both relatively expensive. I’ve stated on both that it is collection only and that I hate shipping guitars.

Anyway I received an offer on one of the guitar and it seemed quite reasonable, so accepted it. Only then did I see the caveat attached to the offer “I make this offer on the basis that would have to pay someone to collect on my behalf”. The buyer has been a member since 2020 and has one solitary positive feedback.

since the agreed sale 3 days ago I’ve sent 4 different messages and only had one response.

”Morning

Many thanks for excepting my offer, can I contact you on Tuesday to make arrangements for collection, would likely be towards to end of next week

Kind regards”

Something about this feels off too me, although I could be wrong. The money has been paid and currently being held by eBay.

I’d love some thoughts and experiences from yourselves.

many thanks

[tressygirl]

Two important things here.

Firstly, if the buyer sends someone to collect their item,  a third party,  they,  the buyer,  invalidate any eBay MBG,  Money Back Guarantee protection.

Most importantly, the person coming to collect Must bring with them the collection code,  the buyer receives this, usually in an email message from eBay, or it's with their order details. 

I would also enter the code for collection whilst the person is still there,  to make sure it works,  and shows the item has been collected.  It's your only proof for collection.

Send the buyer a message, that the person must bring with them a valid collection code,  as the item cannot be released without it.

If you come across any other issues here,  come back to us for advice. 

@sunday_mornin 

[insidethe93]

Bottom line: would-be buyer and eBay can't force a seller to sell. That's assuming that ultimately a seller is prepared to for any cost of doing so e.g. negative feedback and anything eBay decides to do (I don't sell so I don't know what those are).

Have you explained to the buyer, along with apologies, just what you explained in your post, that "...so accepted it. Only then did I see the caveat attached to the offer"?

Better to have the buyer cross for not reading all their message than feel obliged to go through with a transaction that "feels off" to you. Wording an apology appropriately and they won't be left feeling too cross and they could be kept on-side if the OP did want to start again with them.

[sunday_mornin]

Great response and very helpful. I was worried that after the sale and item collected, they could claim the item is not as described etc. Wasn’t aware that the buyer lost protections when buying in this manner.

Thank you 

[sunday_mornin]

I’m happy to go along with this until I feel my suspicion is justified. I simply will not be handing anything over to anyone without a validated collection code.

I have contacted the buyer, I just find their lack of response worrying. I usually find eBayers to be pretty on the ball with their comms, especially when they’ve just spent the best part of a grand on something.

Thank you for your response!!

[roger_roger_over_and_nowt]

I'm wondering if they may still be covered by their bank if they paid by credit or debit card ?.

[sunday_mornin]

Not sure if you can circumvent eBay’s protections that way. I don’t sell often on here and I’m always glad when the transaction is finished and everyone is happy.

[tressygirl]

Mmmm, if they find fault with the item they could start a chargeback with their payment provider!  Then,  the seller would need to fight their corner that the buyer did not come and inspect the item themselves.

Here, I've no idea how that would pan out,  common sense doesn't always prevail!

The joys of selling ! 🙄

@roger_roger_over_and_nowt 

[thesmokingrunner]

As a guitar and bass player/collector myself, @sunday_mornin , I'm not sure I would continue with this transaction if I was in your position.

First off, looking at the listing you sold the guitar (the EOB Strat, yes?) with a gig bag. They're not exactly known for offering a lot of in-transit protection so on that basis alone that's reason enough to list it as collection only.

Secondly, the buyer is (apparently) sending "someone" to collect it. Question: Is that someone a friend or a courier? A friend might be ok to collect, a courier less so because chances are the guitar will be transported from van to distribution centre to van, might have other parcels dropped on it, might be mishandled and so on - you just don't know, and unless it is securely protected (ideally by a hard case in a guitar transit box) it may not arrive in quite the same condition it was in when it left.

Thirdly, I can find nothing at all on eBay's Help & Support pages to say that a buyer cannot open a dispute with their payment provider after a third party has collected an item on behalf of the buyer. Third party collection may well invalidate the MBG, it does not invalidate a claim made by the buyer with the payment provider.

You listed the guitar as collection only with good reason. Were I in your position I might possibly be persuaded to ship the guitar (suitably protected) direct to a buyer, though my decision would depend not only on the value of the guitar but also decent communication with the buyer (one email reply from four messages sent would make me start to wonder) and I think you may be taking one risk too many with this transaction.

My advice: insist on collection only. That way at least the buyer will be able to see and try out the guitar before handing the collection code over - though even that won't prevent a return case or payment dispute being opened after the buyer leaves with it.

[suelel1968]

Hi, whenever someone mentions collection i always the remember "The mysterious case of the double gas oven". Correctly described by the seller, picked up by the husband, disapproved of by the wife, who had misread the correct details and return case raised as "not as described". Refunded by Ebay and seller told to pick it up at their expense.

Personally I wouldn't go there on Ebay and this buyer might be genuine, but i would rather take the hit of naughty mark from Ebay than get embroiler in something like that.

[sunday_mornin]

Hey, thanks for the great response.

Ive been doing some digging in regards the MBG and it’s certainly ambiguous at best when it comes to collection only (and certainly if a third party is used).

It’s the extremely low feedback count and almost non existent comms that’s bothering me. At this stage I’m inclined to see what the buyer says next and see how that transpires. I must also say, I’m unwilling to package this guitar as per my auction description. If the buyer wants to send a friend or an acquaintance, I’ll deal with that but if it does end up being a courier, I can’t see this transaction happening.

[vinylscot]

Be honest with the buyer. Tell him that you have sought advice, and, on reflection, you have decided not to go ahead with the sale. Let him know why, if he asks.

Earlier posters are correct. The buyer could raise a chargeback with his payment provider, and it would almost certainly be undefendable. Chances are everything would be ok, but...

If you do receive negative feedback, you can respond to it calmly and factually, without criticising the buyer, and making clear that you take responsibility for your decision. As you have sold so few items recently, one negative will put a real dent in your feedback score, but it's probably worth it, for your peace of mind.

[sunday_mornin]

Hey

Like I’ve said to others now, I’m going to see what the buyer says next. If he does intend to send a courier, my unwillingness to package up the guitar will pretty much shoot this whole transaction down in flames. If he is sending a friend, then I may see how that plays out. After 23 years on this website, I’d hate to acquire my first negative, especially when I don’t feel I’ve done anything wrong.

With regards a buyer potential triggering a charge back, surely this risk is always going to be present when selling on eBay?

[tressygirl]

@thesmokingrunner  wrote:   though even that won't prevent a return case or payment dispute being opened after the buyer leaves with it.

This is true for every sale on eBay.  A chargeback can be made  with a buyer's payment provider, then it's a  'fight'  with proving your side of the matter, and as I said above, commonsense doesn't always prevail, it's never a dead cert to win those cases.

@suelel1968  you remember, I do too , the double gas oven case!  I always remember a good maxim when selling.....   only list what you can afford to lose.

@sunday_mornin   You may well have a genuine buyer, and the sale goes through smoothly,  but with every sale on eBay,  an argument / case  can be made,  with a buyer's payment provider. 

It's a tough decision to make to go ahead with the sale or not,   and a lot of trust involved,  especially when an item of value is being sold.

[tressygirl]

@sunday_mornin  wrote:   With regards a buyer potential triggering a charge back, surely this risk is always going to be present when selling on eBay?

You must have been writing this,  as I was writing the same in my last post!  🤗

@sunday_mornin 

[jckl1957]

The Money Back Guarantee does not cover items collected by a third party; it is not ambiguous.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

However, there have been a couple of posts fairly recently in 'member to member' where items have been collected by a courier/man with a van and damaged in transit.  Subsequently, buyers have claimed and the sellers have had a real battle with Ebay trying to get Ebay to follow their own Ts and Cs.

I think asking the buyer who they are sending to collect the item is a good idea - you both need to know that the guitar will be handled with care.

It may even be worth sending the link above to your buyer and emphasising that, should there be any damage to the guitar when they receive it, they will not be able to claim against you and would have to rely on the courier insurance.

[sunday_mornin]

That’s brilliant, I’ve screen shotted that table for future reference.

I have asked twice now, who is the buyer sending the collect? As yet, no response.

If it turns out to be necessary, I will make sure the buyer is fully aware of his lack of protection after the transaction is finished.

Thank you

[*vyolla*]

If somebody is buying a guitar they generally like to come and take a look before continuing with the transaction and handing over their collection code. 

Personally, I feel that if a buyer is setting out to part you from your item and payment then they'll go for it, but if you're listing something on eBay, where you can't accept cash on collection, then this is a risk you'll be taking no matter if they're sending a courier or collecting themselves. 

[lucy_farmer]

The words 'gumtree' and 'cash on collection' would be springing to my mind now...

[sunday_mornin]

lol keeping my guitars from now on and extending the house springs to mind.