Sellers beware of a return scam - changing delivery address on returns label

[fos1133]

We have had two buyers try to scam us recently using eBay returns. It appears that they open a return as normal on eBay and obtain their Royal Mail Tracked Returns label. However, the item is returned to a different address delivered by the same Royal Mail delivery office, so it appears that it has been delivered and eBay will accept it as delivered. Both times that this happened I know that the address was somehow changed on the returns label as I know where it was delivered to and it was not us, although I do not know what was actually returned as I didn't see the parcel (it could be an empty box - the first time it happened I was told it weighed 200g when the item should have been around 8kg). Both times I contacted eBay customer support and after investigating the buyer, they closed their accounts as there must have been a pattern of similar behaviour.

[bilhus-37]

Hi 

so the request they opened was changed mind when they have opened up the return with eBay which got closed in our favour. Why I think it has to be some one in Royal Mail as the parcel has been delivered but without a signature we are waiting to hear back from Royal Mail on the signature however how we know they have the parcel is we recorded all imei numbers and serial numbers now the phone was brand new and had been activated 6 days after it was apparently sent back and the phone is being used as find my I phone is on which must mean that the scammers have some one in Royal Mail who can change the return address print off proof of postage and hand over special delivery items with out a signature this is happening in the CM4 areas I won't be the only one affected by this it must be quite a few sellers who are being targeted sellers beware please 

[fos1133]

An important thing to remember is to ALWAYS report a buyer when they do something worth reporting them for. Examples:

Falsely claimed the item wasn't as described

Claimed an item wasn't received when tracking shows it was delivered

Returned a completely different item or an empty box
Returned an item after they opened, used or damaged it
Returned the item with missing parts

If a buyer has a habit of doing this and are reported then eBay will pick up on it and do something about it. Our most popular (or least popular for us!) is buyers claiming that we've sent the wrong item when they have actually ordered the wrong item (and the item sent is exactly as described).

You can also block buyers on the following page:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/bmgt/BuyerBlock

[4_bathrooms]

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@bilhus-37 wrote:

so the request they opened was changed mind when they have opened up the return with eBay which got closed in our favour. Why I think it has to be some one in Royal Mail as the parcel has been delivered but without a signature we are waiting to hear back from Royal Mail on the signature 

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If it was a remorse return the buyer wouldn't have needed to change anything on an address label. They would have purchased a label from Royal Mail's website and deliberately entered an incorrect address - this doesn't require anyone within Royal Mail to do anything. Unless the return service was 1st/2nd Class Signed For or Special Delivery the postie wouldn't be required to obtain a signature on delivery. Someone intent on committing fraud is unlikely to purchase an enhanced service when all they require is a delivery confirmation - something that is provided with standard 2nd Class Large Letter and Small Parcel services.

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@bilhus-37 wrote:

however how we know they have the parcel is we recorded all imei numbers and serial numbers now the phone was brand new and had been activated 6 days after it was apparently sent back and the phone is being used as find my I phone is on  

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Have you reported the IMEI and serial number to Action Fraud as stolen? In your shoes I'd make a report and obtain a crime reference number. Once you have the CRN you need to provide it in your chargeback defence indicating the handset has been reported stolen. I realise as you're not a consumer you can't just report the IMEI to the network provider to have the device blocked but is that an option with your supplier?

Anyway, as the eBay return wasn't a Money Back Guarantee case you don't have any automatic chargeback protection from eBay. 

[4_bathrooms]

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@4_bathrooms wrote:

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If it was a remorse return the buyer wouldn't have needed to change anything on an address label. They would have purchased a label from Royal Mail's website and deliberately entered an incorrect address - this doesn't require anyone within Royal Mail to do anything. Unless the return service was 1st/2nd Class Signed For or Special Delivery the postie wouldn't be required to obtain a signature on delivery.

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Oh wait - I've just noticed you offer free returns. But...they still only needed to edit the PDF label they received. The delivering postie would not scan and check the address - they would take the item to the door of the address shown on the label then scanned it whilst handing it over or stuffing it in a hedge. Whilst there are certainly going to be theives within the Royal Mail network I doubt that is where this theft happened - eBay clearly knew something was up with the buyer hence their NARUing of their account. In such cases eBay should protect the seller from a chargeback automatically but it seems they don't.

[bilhus-37]

Hi 

In regards to the label we provided it well eBay automatically provided one for the return so thats what I mean how has the address been changed on the Royal Mail system when eBay have provided a return label with out address in regards to protection when we disputed the claim it states that we are protected by seller protection and nothing will be deducted from our funds so it looks like eBay are backing us and they must know this going on it won't just be me the good thing is starting to help sellers to battle this 

[4_bathrooms]

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@bilhus-37 wrote:

so thats what I mean how has the address been changed on the Royal Mail system 

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It hasn't - as I've been trying to point out Royal Mail do not rely on the complete address from acceptance to delivery.

With Royal Mail the postcode is used to determine which delivery office is responsible for delivering the item; after the item arrives at the responsible delivery office it goes into a postie's bag for delivery. The postie is the weakest link as they will just take the item to the address shown on the label and scan the QR code - that is why this return scam only works with Royal Mail labels. When Royal Mail indicated the address the item was delivered to didn't match what was on their system they meant the GPS coordinates of the address where the item was scanned didn't match the address the label was supposed to be delivered to. This is because the address on the label had been manipulated by the sender to a nearby address served by the same delivery office - it really is as unsophisticated as that. The "scanners" the posties use are actually just a type of rugged smartphone - I doubt the app that does the scanning even shows them what the address should be. 

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@bilhus-37 wrote:

in regards to protection when we disputed the claim it states that we are protected by seller protection and nothing will be deducted from our funds so it looks like eBay are backing us and they must know this going on it won't just be me the good thing is starting to help sellers to battle this 

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That's good news. In all fairness as eBay had clearly NARUd the buyers account they should have protected you automatically.

[sacarp-58]

The same thing has just happened to me, but ebay have now said my account details were mistakenly different to my shipping address of which items have always been delivered correctly,  except this one time Sally Carpenter

[4_bathrooms]

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@sacarp-58 wrote:

The same thing has just happened to me, but ebay have now said my account details were mistakenly different to my shipping address of which items have always been delivered correctly

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It sounds like you need to check this page, especially the "Return address" option. Is the address shown there correct or is it an old address?

[*vyolla*]

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@sacarp-58 wrote:

The same thing has just happened to me, but ebay have now said my account details were mistakenly different to my shipping address of which items have always been delivered correctly,  except this one time Sally Carpenter

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Can you explain what's happened in a bit more detail please?

Are you saying that your returns address was incorrect on a returns label that you issued via eBay?

[sacarp-58]

This is what I've  just been told by ebay. The problem is I sold a heavy gold chain to the buyer, who then claimed it was broken. I disputed this, and received abuse from the buyer. I immediately accepted the returns, with ebay forwarding a postage label to them on the 4th of December. It took the buyer  15 days to supposing return the item to a different address to my official registered shipping address.  Royal mail have confirmed and are going to try and retrieve the item. Ebay have just said I have had a different  registration address the whole time, but my correct shipping address.  I'm gobsmacked. I sold the gold chain to the buyer early December, who then asked me for a discount after bidding, which I refused. I said I would relist it if he had changed his mind mind, but he paid for it. Funds held by ebay. I sent it straight away and that's when this horror story began. Sally Carpenter. 

[bmann-2000]

If you do everything correctly, you are covered by the eBay guarantee, so the crooks are effectively stealing from eBay, not you.   Sellers are watching this board because they want to draw on others experience to ensure they do not make any costly mistakes. 

Royal Mail asking a third party for your item back seems like an unlikely scenario.  What is more likely is that you have been speaking to Royal Mail employees and eBay employees who are inexperienced and don't really understand what is happening.  Your gold chain is gone but you still have the money.  If Royal Mail tracking information indicates the item was delivered back to your actual eBay address, eBay will take the money back.

Have eBay given you the Royal Mail tracking number?  Step1 is to ask for that.

[4_bathrooms]

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@sacarp-58 wrote:

I immediately accepted the returns, with ebay forwarding a postage label to them on the 4th of December. It took the buyer  15 days to supposing return the item to a different address to my official registered shipping address.  Royal mail have confirmed and are going to try and retrieve the item. 

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Have you seen the label? Does it show your address?

Note that your registered eBay address can be different to your return address. When you first created your eBay account all the addresses (delivery, dispatch, return and collection) would have defaulted to your registration address. If you have moved since you first created your account it is possible not all of these addresses have been updated - have you checked what is shown as your return address on this page? When eBay created the return label they would have used the "Return address" shown on that page. 

It is also possible the buyer manipulated the address label they were given and sent something worthless to a different address in your local area. You need to check what your return address is set to before deciding what to do next. If your return address (not your registration address) is set correctly then it is most likely deliberate fraud. If it is deliberate fraud and eBay have refunded the buyer you need to do the following in this precise order:

1. File a report with Action Fraud.
2. Click the "Report a problem" link found at the bottom of the eBay dispute/case.
3. Select the most appropriate reason for filing the report and - crucially - include the reference number you were given by Action Fraud earlier.
4. Please let us know how you get on.

[sacarp-58]

Thank you. I will do.

[bilhus-37]

Hi 

This may help call Royal Mail and ask for a denial receipt they will take some information off you and within 48 hours you will get a email confirmation and within 7 days you will get a letter confirming of the address has been changed as Royal Mail will check the gps co ordinates and confirm that they done match your address in a letter and then speak with the eBay escalation team who will give you a link to upload the letter going forward all my returns now require me to upload a label so they being automatically generate one and I will always use special delivery which is harder for them to alter as they record gps on return back to you hope that helps 

[ar4-64]

this happened to me this week, sent a macbook pro value £1400, asked to return saying he didnt like it, so he bought his own label and sent it to another address, ebay post office show its delivered, he wants his refund by 30th jan, ebay ask for proof of non delivery, post office in the area has 2, 1st sent me to another one, but open hours closed by time i get there, ebay says they must refund and we appeal !

can you adviuse me please

im on 07866576029

[ar4-64]

this happened to me this week, sent a macbook pro value £1400, asked to return saying he didnt like it, so he bought his own label and sent it to another address, ebay post office show its delivered, he wants his refund by 30th jan, ebay ask for proof of non delivery, post office in the area has 2, 1st sent me to another one, but open hours closed by time i get there, ebay says they must refund and we appeal !

can you adviuse me please

[repairdontdespair]

First I’d make a police report on action fraud. Then You need a letter from Royal Mail confirming it was not delivered to your address (ask for the gps coordinates, see bilhus's reply above yours for helpful info), You’ll have to phone them and ask for help. Then you can ask eBay if they’ll cover you with that evidence.

i think you should let eBay refund, don't refund yourself. Then you can appeal. If you refund, you lose the chance to appeal. The risk is an account metric ding that you can't remove... but £1400 is a lot 

If eBay don’t cover, your only choice is small claims court, save the buyers details for court, in case you can't logon or something. 

Record all evidence at every stage. 

[bmann-2000]

Don't panic, you are covered by the eBay seller guarantee provided you did everything correctly regarding dispatch period, uploading tracking etc.

You need to email Royal Mail to obtain an email confirming the return address is not your address.  For future protection, you also need to change the settings in your account to prevent the automatic issuing of a Royal Mail returns label, see back in same thread for details.

here.for.you@royalmail.com

Here's the reply I got from Royal Mail, I sent it onto eBay and got refunded.  It took me 2 attempts to get the repsonse I needed.  With this response, eBay then know the return address is not your address.

Enquiry Reference # 000000-000000
Response By E-mail (Hannah Hamilton) (06/10/2023 05.08 PM)
Dear Brian
Thank you for contacting us.
I’m sorry you’ve not received your Royal Mail Tracked® item,
reference number xxxxxxxxxxxGB, which is recorded as being
delivered.
I’ve checked our tracking record and it appears the address on the
item doesn’t match the one you provided in your email. This means
the senders have wrongly addressed the item, or provided you with
the wrong reference number.
Under the General Data Protection Regulation, I’m unable to share
the address details held on record for this item, sorry. You’ll need to
check that with the sender directly.
Thanks again for contacting us and I hope you find this information
useful. If you still need help, please visit our Help and Support Centre
at www.royalmail.com/help.
Regards
Hannah Hamilton
Royal Mail

Customer By Service Email (Brian xxxxx) (02/10/2023 11.08 AM)
Hi,
Can you please confirm by email that the item tracked with
xxxxxxxxxxGB was not delivered to Brian xxxxxx at HouseName,
MyStreet, MyVillage, County, Postcode.
Kind Regards,
Brian xxxxx

[repairdontdespair]

Excellent advice 

[bmann-2000]

I do not think you need action fraud or the police.  You have paid to use the eBay platform and the protections that come with that.  The scammer has stolen from eBay not you.  It's eBay's job to police their own platform.