Seller wants to return a different item! Am being scammed? Ebay not helping.

[travisb24]

Hello all, I could use some advice from those more experienced

Recently put an ipad pro 12.9 on ebay and it sold for GBP 300 (w/ no returns). Seller sent a picture of an ipad screen that shows a device being adminstrated by Glasgow College. They say they can't set up the device, have told Ebay it's defective, and are using Ebay's guaranteed return policy for defective products.

I've been sole owner of the device since 2018 and it's never shown this screen before. Additionaly it was once replaced by Apple and there was no setup issues after. I reset device before sending so it was a fresh machine for buyer.

Have called Apple. They see records of the machine, say there is 0% chance Apple gave me aan ipad with an active account. They said I wouldn't have been able to set up Ipad if this was managed by another organization. They thought this was a scam. They said one could compare the serial numbers if they returned a different device

I shared all this with Ebay. Asked them to investigate.

Ebay told me they have no way of verifying the ipad I sent was ok. They said I had to allow a return . I asked," what if they return a different device?" They say they will open a case then.

I do not believe the Glasgow screen is on my machine. I believe they will return a device that is NOT what I sent, using Ebay's return policy. Also believe that I will have lost my ipad + proceeds from sale, when defective ipad is sent back and I can't get Ebay to help.

Any advice on how I should proceed? Help!

[dch2112011]

There is not a lot you can do until it is returned.

It is impossible to identify the computer from the picture.

You could google the buyer and see if there is a link to the university, this would establish that the buyer may be trying to install some software which gives control to the university admin -

even though the software says it is owned by - it might be that the softaware is designed for the university  and simply cannot be installed without authority. it may even be incompatable with the operating system and will not install or any number of setting reasons.

Of course the easy route would be to contact the buyer and simply ask him, voicing your concerns rather than jumping to conclusions  - the buyer may have a simple explanation.

[sml192]

As eBay has advised you have no option other than to allow the return.  If you do receive back a different item you would need to firstly file a report with Action Fraud to obtain a crime number and then use the 'Report a problem' option in the eBay case. 

[travisb24]

I have explained all this to Ebay, they say I have to pay for shipping to return the item. I'm sending the label out now. 

Buyer says they have no idea why there's a conection to Glasgow College. He's just trying to load software.

[*vyolla*]

Hopefully you have the serial number of that iPad.

All you can do is to accept the return and then see what comes back. If it's not your iPad you need to file an online report with Actionfraud (the Police website), this will generate a report number which you then need to pass on to eBay with the 'report a buyer' link. 

[rjwilmsi]

As others have mentioned, eBay have a process for fraudulent returns, they just don't make it that clear. So here it is:

• Seller must accept return and issue return postage label within the returns case
• Seller must NOT make accusations to buyer / do anything to prevent the return or breach eBay terms
• Seller must take photos of item received back, including serial number.
• If seller receives a different item back of signficantly lower value, seller must immediately go to Action Fraud online and complete an online fraud report.
• Save the Action Fraud report number and a PDF of the submission.
• Go to the eBay return, use "report buyer" option, choose "different item returned" or similar. Attach photo showign different item returned, if possible.
• The case will go pending, eBay will step in and refund the buyer - yes seller will lose the case at that point.
• Seller then must contact eBay promptly via chat or call to state to eBay "I have been a vitim of fraud under return 12345"
• eBay will send an eBay message to seller with a link to upload the Action Fraud report.
• Seller upload report promptly.
• If all goes well, eBay will refund the seller in full as buyer fraud is covered under eBay seller protections.

Notes:

• Action Fraud don't investigate (unless you are the brother of a police commissioner etc. or its millions of pounds), eBay just eat the loss.
• eBay will eventually ban the buyer if they do this repeatedly, but buyers can get away with it / eBay gives buyer the benefit of the doubt

[nigel_paul_wright7557]

"No returns"

You cant add your own terms and conditions as an ebay sale has UK distance selling laws applied to it.

It is not a private sale.

Buyer is within their rights to return an item they dont want or is faulty.

[dancewithadingo]

Good Evening Travis

Have you checked your buyers feedback?  Look at both aspects ie what he has left and what others have said about him. It won't solve your immediate problem but it could be illuminating.

Good luck

[4_bathrooms]

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@nigel_paul_wright7557 wrote:

"No returns"

You cant add your own terms and conditions as an ebay sale has UK distance selling laws applied to it.

It is not a private sale.

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You keep posting this and it is complete rubbish where (genuine) private sellers are concerned. Quoted from the very regulations you mention:

"In these Regulations—

“consumer” means an individual acting for purposes which are wholly or mainly outside that individual's trade, business, craft or profession;

“trader” means a person acting for purposes relating to that person's trade, business, craft or profession, whether acting personally or through another person acting in the trader's name or on the trader's behalf."

Can you please explain how that definition of a trader applies to a private seller?

[4_bathrooms]

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@*vyolla* wrote:

All you can do is to accept the return and then see what comes back. If it's not your iPad you need to file an online report with Actionfraud (the Police website), this will generate a report number which you then need to pass on to eBay with the 'report a buyer' link. 

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Just to clarify; in the return case there should be a "Report a problem" link once the tracking indicates the item has been returned. Clicking that link stops the automated returns process and opens a new case in it's place. The OP will need to use that link to report the buyer rather than the generic "Report a buyer" page as the link found in the case will stop the automated decision process and prevent the buyer from escalating the case. Providing an Action Fraud reference number via this method seems to be the way to ensure eBay pays any refund out of their own pocket.

[dch2112011]

A private seller is not a trader (except where a trader tries to hide as a private seller to take advantage of the more lax laws governing private sellers)

However Private Sellers do now come under the consumer rights act 2015  where a private seller is legally obliged to correctly describe an item for sale  and the consumer (buyer ) has the right to return and obtain refund if the item is incorrectly described or the item does not belong to the private seller.

The guidance for describing an item for a private seller is vastly different to a trader  and guidance is provided under the act.

A private seller outside of ebay is not required to accept remorse returns or returns where an item does not work strangely .

All this said private sellers cannot be forced to accept a return or make a refund even if they are in the wrong, leaving the buyer with recourse through the courts or through mediation.

On ebay of course due to the agreement with ebay to use their site all members are governed by the MBG and ebay's arbitration which makes Not as described claims for all sellers subject to return and refund.

Distance selling regulations only applied to traders from 2000 to 2014 when they were replaced by the consumer contracts regulations 2013 

The consumer rights act 2015 covers goods or services purchased at home

All of these cover 'selling at distance'

[4_bathrooms]

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@dch2112011 wrote:

However Private Sellers do now come under the consumer rights act 2015  where a private seller is legally obliged to correctly describe an item for sale  and the consumer (buyer ) has the right to return and obtain refund if the item is incorrectly described or the item does not belong to the private seller.

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The Misrepresentation Act covers private sales. Under that Act a private seller cannot deliberately misrepresent an item they are selling; if they do they are required to compensate the buyer.

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@dch2112011 wrote:

The guidance for describing an item for a private seller is vastly different to a trader  and guidance is provided under the act.

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Could you please provide a link to where that guidance can be found in the Act? All I can find in Part 1 is this:

"This Part applies where there is an agreement between a trader and a consumer for the trader to supply goods, digital content or services, if the agreement is a contract."

The Consumer Rights Act uses the same definitions for "consumer" and "trader" as The Consumer Contracts Regulations do.

[dch2112011]

Sale of Goods Act 1979 is now incorporated into the consumer rights act 2015  therefore the remainder of the sale of goods act 1979 comes under the consumer rights act 2015 and is still applicable in law.

Buyer  is now referred to as consumer in the new acts wording being a non business buyer ,this I presume is to distinguish between business to private  and business to business sales - private to private sales are left in the sale of goods act 1979 which as stated is now part of the consumer rights act 2015.

Clear as mud !  If you want clarification you need to talk to a legal expert, this is only my understanding of the legislation gained through experiance and research and may not be  complete nor interpreted as a member of the legal profession would advise.

[4_bathrooms]

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@dch2112011 wrote:

private to private sales are left in the sale of goods act 1979 which as stated is now part of the consumer rights act 2015.

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The Sale of Goods Act is not part of the Consumer Rights Act; the CRA effectively replaced the SoGA for business to consumer sales (this is mentioned in the SoGA). However, the SoGA was never repealed so it still applies to business to business sales and consumer to consumer (private) sales. It actually offers very little protection where the seller is a private seller. For example; there is only an implied term the goods will correspond with the description - the aforementioned Misrepresentation Act offers better protection here. Also, delivery to carrier is treated as delivery; i.e. the seller is not responsible for the performance of the carrier - this is regardless whether both parties agreed on the choice of carrier or not.

The point I have been trying to make is contrary to what @nigel_paul_wright7557 seems to believe any Act or Regulation that states "Consumer" in it's title does not apply to a private sale. As far as private sales conducted via eBay are concerned the SoGA applies but that fact is pretty much immaterial as both parties have contractually agreed to abide by eBay's User Agreement which grants the buyer far more rights than they have enshrined in law anyway. However, that does not mean private sales conducted via eBay are subject to "UK distance selling laws" which is a wholly incorrect statement.    

[dch2112011]

With regards to description you need to read the next line which clarifies the term implied as a condition which makes it compulsory

As regards England and Wales and Northern Ireland, the term implied by subsection (1) above is a condition.]

With regards to the sale of goods acts you refer to the following explains

The SGA 1979 and the SGASA 1982 have not been repealed and still apply to contracts for the sale of goods and the supply of services outside a consumer context (e.g. private sales and business-to-business transactions)  These acts have been superseded by the consumer rights act  which is now referenced  within the  sale of goods act.

So you can see legally a private seller has to make sure that goods for sale are described correctly , a buyer  has the right to return and refund  not as described  items as detailed  within these and various other pieces of legislation - some dating back to 1968.

As I said before if you would like a full  legal explanation and interpretation you need to seek good legal advice - it is a huge subject  and is covered by over 20 UK acts and several pieces of european legislation  as well as established case law  which has been incorporated into current legislation.

The idea of the 2015 act was to remove ambiguity and consolidate various pieces of legislation to make it clearer for consumers, small and medium businesses.

[dch2112011]

Indeed the UK distance selling laws do not apply to private sales  -  that was the point of my post - to substantiate why your statement was correct.

Below are a couple of exerts from the guidance notes to the 2015 act which explains implied terms  and why they are compulsory - fio - anyway enough of this legal beagling

42.The current legislation provides that goods must meet certain standards – such as being of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, corresponding to descriptions or samples by which they are supplied, and being free from third parties’ rights - and provides that the trader must have the right to sell (or hire) the goods. These matters are treated in the current legislation as “implied terms” of a contract. Implied terms are terms that are not expressly set out in a contract (which are “express terms”) but still form part of the contract.

43.The current legislation categorises these implied terms as “conditions” of the contract or “warranties” (save in relation to Scotland as this terminology does not apply in Scots law, but the legislation provides an equivalent effect). Most of the statutory implied terms are categorised as conditions, breach of which enables the consumer to choose either to treat the contract as terminated or to continue with the contract (i.e. keep the goods) but claim damages. The implied terms regarding goods being free from third parties’ rights are classified as “warranties”, where a breach is relatively less serious but could give rise to a claim for damages. The current legislation also sets out statutory remedies for consumers, where the implied terms regarding quality, fitness for purpose and corresponding to descriptions or samples are breached in contracts other than for hire or hire purchase. The statutory remedies are repair or replacement of goods, followed in some circumstances by termination of contract or receiving an appropriate reduction from the price.

[*vyolla*]

When you buy from an individual/private seller (as opposed to a retailer/business seller), the Consumer Rights Act says that the goods you get must be as they were described to you by the seller.

There's no obligation on the seller to disclose any faults, but misrepresenting goods isn't allowed.

For example, something second-hand should not be described as new. If it is, the seller will be in breach of contract.

However, if the buyer can’t reach an agreement with the seller then the buyer would need to take private legal action to enforce that.

I do feel that this is all rather a moot point given that buyers are covered by eBay's Money Back Guarantee or PayPal Buyer Protection or their debit/credit card provider. 

[dch2112011]

Exactly a  moot point !

[gregorius001]

How does it work the other side? As a buyer I want to return graphic card as it turned out to not be compatible but I probably won't be able to send it back in at least one week. What if buyer says that I damaged it during using it or overclocking it or anything else? (I've already noticed that I want to return it I just am unable to do it quickly)

[sml192]

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@gregorius001 wrote:

How does it work the other side? As a buyer I want to return graphic card as it turned out to not be compatible but I probably won't be able to send it back in at least one week. What if buyer says that I damaged it during using it or overclocking it or anything else? (I've already noticed that I want to return it I just am unable to do it quickly)

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You have 30 days from date of delivery to open a return request.

Only business sellers have to accept a 'Change of mind' return.