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Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement

I'm in the UK. Got notified about this by Florida case by Sriplaw Attorney Joel B. Rothman last week. I'm a private seller, had a single nato strap listing removed by ebay under VeRO rules two weeks ago. Sounds like they are accusing me of counterfeiting, copyright theft etc. Am reading up on these SAD cases now. Posting to try and connect with others perhaps in the same or similar situation.

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Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement

When i was working i mainly dealt with Conveyancing and Probate 😞

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Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement


@wyntersemporium wrote:

What I'm worried about my store may be pulled down ?




Have you tried sending the email about not recognising the court's jurisdiction to the address shown on the PacerMonitor page? It will cost you absolutely nothing to do and if you are removed as a defendant from the case eBay will have no reason to close your account. 

 

 


@wyntersemporium wrote:


pretty disgusting of eBay rolling over and giving USA info. I'm worried they're going to come for my mums house. 


I'm not sure eBay have given them any info. In "Schedule A" you are identified by your eBay user ID which is public; not your actual name. The Illinois court cannot force you to pay a penny even if a judgement is entered against you; they would have to pursue that judgement through the UK's courts as a contractual debt which they're almost certainly not going to do. They are holding your eBay account to ransom - if you don't get yourself removed as a defendant from the case or don't reach a settlement that is ultimately what is going to happen.

Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Message 102 of 119
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Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement

What @4_bathrooms is saying is correct. 

 

They are suing the eBay account name. eBay will have been court ordered to provide information to a certain degree however we dont always know what information they give. 

 

Illinois cannot force you to do anything. They can only enforce a judgement on eBay to close you don't and hand over any money eBay has access to linked to the eBay user name being sued. 

 

If your Amazon account is a different name then they would have to bring a new lawsuit against that user name. 

 

It can all get very complicated based on trading status too, such as individual/ self employed/ sole trader, ltd, plc etc etc as the liabilities differ. 

 

For example, a self employed person is fully liable under the eBay user name as it's a trading name. A ltd company is only liable as a company, so not the individuals. 

 

Please read through your documentation. Have a look for a hearing date of any sort. They're usually conference calls or video calls and if not you can request one. 

Message 103 of 119
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Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement

Have you considered simply changing your eBay name?

 

if nothing else, just to troll them ? 😃

Message 104 of 119
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Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement

Don't forget, they could get your detail by being sneaky..

 

Buy an item then open a SNAD to get your return name and address....

 

You might want to ensure your privacy somehow on this situation 😉

Message 105 of 119
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Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement

Scrap that, forgot you were a business seller with your contact details displayed...

Message 106 of 119
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Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement

Yes, this is also an argument against being served via email. 

 

They, they attorneys ask the courts to allow alternative methods to serving a lawsuit, namely via email. They sometimes do that in the basis they don't know your address. 

 

However UK eBay sellers that are business sellers have their details visible. 

 

@wyntersemporium have you asked the attorney for any evidence and details of what exactly you're being accused of? They usually will send a screenshot of the listing but that may also show your address.

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Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement


@lord_and_lady_m wrote:

 

@wyntersemporium have you asked the attorney for any evidence and details of what exactly you're being accused of? They usually will send a screenshot of the listing but that may also show your address.


The problem with engaging with the court (or the attorney involved) to do anything other than challenge the court's jurisdiction could be seen as submitting to the court's jurisdiction.

 

I've just seen this page on the Illinois Bar Journal. One of the articles states:

 

"Listing an item on eBay does not confer personal jurisdiction upon Illinois courts
August 2010 Illinois Law Update, Page 400


The Appellate Court of Illinois, Second District, in June upheld a motion to dismiss from the Circuit Court of Du Page County, finding that 'a seller of an item on eBay, without further ties to a forum, is not subject to specific jurisdiction in that forum.'"

 

Unfortunately the article cannot be read without being an IBJ subscriber. However, if this happened to me - and I was interested in preserving my eBay account - the first thing I would do is email the courtroom deputy to challenge the court's jurisdiction and request to be removed as a defendant on that basis. 

Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Message 108 of 119
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Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement

This appears to be the case in question.

In short, a Californian resident sold a car through eBay to an Illinois resident. The Illinois buyer decided the car was not as described and filed a claim through an Illinois county court for breach of contract; the Californian seller subsequently filed a motion to dismiss the complaint on the basis the Illinois court had no personal jurisdiction over him. The motion to dismiss was ultimtely upheld because: "the mere formation of an on-line contract in the defendant's limited e-mail and telephonic correspondence with the Illinois plaintiff regarding that contract * * * are by themselves insufficient to establish minimum contacts with Illinois, and the defendant did not purposely direct any eBay sales * * * specifically toward Illinois residents or use Ebay to establish the regular business in Illinois."

 

And that involved a case where both parties were US residents.

Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Message 109 of 119
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Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement

I did that, but it will take days to read through it as they sent 1000s of transactions 

“What we’ve got here is failure to communicate.”
Message 110 of 119
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Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement

They said I had copied their design. I don't have a factory neither I have the brains to actually do this. Bought them from AliExpress noticed there is quite a number of those rings on Etsy. 

“What we’ve got here is failure to communicate.”
Message 111 of 119
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Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement

I receved the same letter and am based in the UK

I sold 2 straps in the USA and was asked for $10k when i explained that the total amount of the straps was $15

the settlement price dropped to $6k

I asked them if Omega was being taken to court as they sell NATO straps on their USA website

Not had a reply to that question yet

After reading all the information my only question would be 

If I ignore it and judgement is made 

Would I be able to travel to the USA?

Message 112 of 119
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Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement

I am not going along with it all, and never will.  No settlements are coming their way from me.

It is a greedy money grab by an exceedlingly dodgy individual.

It is highly unlikely that they will claw money from you while you are based in the UK, even if it is logistically and legally possible.

The worst that can really happen is that if a ruling goes against you then ebay will remove or further sanction your account.  I can live with that, but I can't live with being extorted by some money-grabber in the US.

Just my tuppence worth.

All the best!

Message 113 of 119
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Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement

Yes you're right. Also this is a civil case in the US, so  you wouldn't get stopped at customs or anything. I'd advise to not tell the lawfirm upon your arrival in the US, but who's going to do that anyway? haha!

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Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement

Actually, this Trademark is a sitting duck for the taking.  Because:

 

1. In 2022, the US Trademark Office declined International Watchman’s recent attempt to trade mark other product classes under “NATO" for offending S.2 of the US Trademark Act because it "consists of, or includes matter, which may falsely suggest a connection with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (“NATO”)”. Going so far as to declare in International Watchman’s unsuccessful appeal "even if the PTO earlier mistakenly registered a similar or identical mark suffering the same defect”.  (see failed application 87302907 - 2022).

 

In short: the US Trademark Office has signalled that this TM would not be supported today, if challenged.

 

2. (S. 60 TM Act) has always required the applicant to make “declaration of bona fide intention”, including that the name/term is not being used by others. And yet, he of course trademarked ’NATO” and “NATO G10” against the product classes for Watches and Watchstraps. So, either he dreamt up these expressions from nowhere (in which case it was a bona fide application), or his application was founded on a fraud.

 

When this trademark was previously challenged, point 2 (above) was neglected, despite there being an over abundance of evidence that these names/terms were already very long established in the industry.

 

And were the status of this trademark to be challenged in this court, the court will be unable to ignore the fact that the US Trademark Office has already created the precedent (in 2022) that NATO should not be the subject of a Trademark.

 

 

This whole thing is a typical ruse of “trade mark squatter” or “trade mark troll”, whose business model is to abuse an unlikely TM to force  - through extortion/lawfare/injunction - legitimate distributors and sellers to pay a license fee for the use of what are actually historic, generic watch industry terms.

 

The plaintiff’s main website (internationalwatchman) displays no products for sale: and the Browse button merely invites you to register (upon which you receive a reply that “your application will be considered”). 

 

But International Watchman does offer licenses (“Trademark for lease”) in the “Highly Acclaimed Trademark NATO”; even citing “More Than 80,000 Google Searches and growing”. 

 

Even in this Court action, the nature of the business model goes unhidden. Defendant 512 wrote to the court: “I did write to the attorney involved and they requested a payment of $5,000.00 as a settlement, which I think as ridiculous as I sold 0 units and I also removed the listing as requested and relisted after removing any keywords which may infringe copyright”.

 

A small trader being extorted through the threat of court action and so the closure of his eBay account, to pay - what would be for him - a considerable amount of money to International Watchman Inc. 

 

Does it not seem that the Southern District of Florida is being borrowed/used as International Watchman’s useful idiot for the purposes of extortion?

 

Notably, on the defendant list of this court case, the names of large companies which sell “NATO Watch Straps” do not appear. Why? Because just as with the International Watchman’s earlier actions against purveyors of “NATO Watch Straps”, he targets small outfits; those who may be overawed by the fear of a Court summons or injunction/threat of legal costs. 

 

International Watchman Inc (the plaintiff) is not going after companies which have in-house counsel, can fight these vexatious claims, and afford to provide evidence that they were selling “NATO Watch Straps” in the USA long before the plaintiff fraudulently claimed “first use” of the term NATO in relation to IC 14 products. Think J Crew, Omega etc.

 

Either way, it is within the powers of this court to cancel the Trade Mark registrations under 5 U.S.C. §1064(3) THE LANHAM ACT (CANCELLATION OF REGISTRATION).

 

 

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Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement

I just wanted to say thanks to pasim8821 for their excellent and very informative post.

I very much agree with what you say!

 

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Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement


@lord_and_lady_m wrote:

Yes, this is also an argument against being served via email. 

 

They, they attorneys ask the courts to allow alternative methods to serving a lawsuit, namely via email. They sometimes do that in the basis they don't know your address. 

 

However UK eBay sellers that are business sellers have their details visible. 

 

@wyntersemporium have you asked the attorney for any evidence and details of what exactly you're being accused of? They usually will send a screenshot of the listing but that may also show your address.


If they don't know your name or address, how do they take someone to court.....? 

Message 117 of 119
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Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement

Yes me to
I think they seem to be attempting to go after very small eBay and Etsy sellers
But afraid to take on anyone with enough financial power to crush them and their claim
Michael Webber
Message 118 of 119
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Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement

Hi,

I'm a private seller and have also just received a very threatening lawsuit email from Sriplaw. I listed a cheap watchstrap a while back,  and unknowingly used a word owned by the company they're representing, I honestly thought it was a generic term for the type of watchstrap. EBay took the listing down, and I thought that was the end of it.

 

What did you decide to do, and what has happened since?

 

This email could easily have gone to my spam folder, and I never would have seen it.

 

Any advice from any of you would be very welcome.

 

Thanking you all in advance

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