Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement

[nbell999]

I'm in the UK. Got notified about this by Florida case by Sriplaw Attorney Joel B. Rothman last week. I'm a private seller, had a single nato strap listing removed by ebay under VeRO rules two weeks ago. Sounds like they are accusing me of counterfeiting, copyright theft etc. Am reading up on these SAD cases now. Posting to try and connect with others perhaps in the same or similar situation.

[diddytechuk]

Thanks for sharing that list. It seems that Class 14 under WIPO has a multitude of sub-classes/IDs that all mean different things, ranging from tie clips to shoe jewellery?! There was a "NATO" trademark rejected in 2012 that specifically stated "watch straps" on the IPO filing so I suspect that if we were to access the original application we might see the full ID. My understanding is that there are no active "NATO" trademarks applicable to watch straps in the UK.

[4_bathrooms]

There is a registered mark for NATO and N.A.T.O (UK00002614162) covering Class 14. The refused application was likely made by a competing party - this is common. The UK and the USA have a "first to use" policy when it comes to trademarks; not a "first to register" one. If two parties file competing claims the party that can demonstrate first use will be successful.

[4_bathrooms]

Out of curiosity has anybody in this thread been contacted by eBay with threats of account suspension/closure?

I don't mean contacted by an attorney threatening to have the eBay account shut down by not settling; I mean a message from eBay themselves threatening to close the account unless the matter is settled. 

[alan-nice]

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@4_bathrooms wrote:

Out of curiosity has anybody in this thread been contacted by eBay with threats of account suspension/closure?

I don't mean contacted by an attorney threatening to have the eBay account shut down by not settling; I mean a message from eBay themselves threatening to close the account unless the matter is settled. 

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@4_bathrooms wrote:

Out of curiosity has anybody in this thread been contacted by eBay with threats of account suspension/closure?

I don't mean contacted by an attorney threatening to have the eBay account shut down by not settling; I mean a message from eBay themselves threatening to close the account unless the matter is settled. 

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Yes, I have, but I have told ebay I will forfeit my account if it comes to it.  Here is the email I received:

Hello,

International Watchman has filed a lawsuit in the United States claiming that your account was used to sell products that infringe the plaintiff’s trademarks, copyrights or patents. Please take this notice seriously.  If you ignore this matter, the court may rule that you have forfeited your legal defense and the court may force eBay to permanently disable your account.  International Watchman can be contacted through their attorneys at the following email address: 
 
control@sriplaw.com
Court Order Details
Court: U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida        
Plaintiff: International Watchman
Trademark/Copyright/Patent at issue: NATO Trademark
Court Case Title: 24-cv-22046; International Watchman v. The Partnerships and Unincorporated Associations Identified on Schedule “A”

Regards,
eBay

[4_bathrooms]

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@alan-nice wrote:

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Yes, I have, but I have told ebay I will forfeit my account if it comes to it. 

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So, if you do nothing you might lose your eBay account but - as I understand it - you are extremely unlikely to have to pay anything at all. Simply put, you do not fall under the court's jurisdiction.

As I understand the process you would need to be served with some sort of (official) summons from the court about the case giving the complainant's (or their attorney's) name, address and the nature of the complaint; I doubt the message you received from eBay constitutes being served in this sense. If/when you received such a notice you could simply reply to indicate you do not recognise the jurisdiction of the court as you are a British/Northern Irish national who does not reside in the USA and therefore do not fall under the court's jurisdiction.

Actually submitting a defence - or appearing via live link to do anything other than dispute the court's jurisdiction - might be deemed as submitting to the jurisdiction of the court. That is the only possible way I can see anyone being forced to pay anything by a UK court as the plaintiff - upon obtaining a judgement - could file a County/Sheriff Court claim in the UK that would be treated in the same manner as any other contractual dispute. If the Floridan District Court issued a default judgement (i.e. because the defendant didn't enter a defence) the plaintiff would need to prove the defendant had submitted to the jurisdiction of the (Floridan) court to pursue them in the UK - something they would not be able to do.     

[alan-nice]

Thanks for your reply, which is very helpful.

I have a sold a couple of straps to folks in the US, and one was possibly in Florida, but I presume that still does not put me under the jurisdiction of a Florida court.

I have no reason to disagree with you say, which seems logical and legally sound to me, but I presume that Ebay itself may still terminate my account nonetheless.   But if so, so be it.

[watch4discount]

I have also received this same message from ebay a few days ago.

I have checked my paid and dispatched orders on Ebay and cannot find anything relevant sent to the U.S. in the past 2 years which is as far back as I can check on my ebay account (unless someone knows a method which will access older orders).

I don't knowingly sell anything outside of the UK and do not offer international postage but I have researched it and noticed that the global shipping program appears to have originally been a default and you needed to opt-out.

How it works. If you're eligible, you'll be opted into the program. eBay International Shipping will become your default international shipping option when you don't offer any other international shipping services and we'll automatically add eBay International Shipping to your current listings.

Therefore, having originally been unaware of this I may have unwittingly occasionally shipped to a UK address which was forwarded to the U.S. but not with intent.  Like most people I don't scrutinise every single address I dispatch to, so as a result I would say that Ebay should take some responsibility although I very much doubt that!   Had the global shipping program been opt-in rather than opt-out this would not have happened to me, and possibly a lot of other sellers.

[4_bathrooms]

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@watch4discount wrote:

Therefore, having originally been unaware of this I may have unwittingly occasionally shipped to a UK address which was forwarded to the U.S. but not with intent.  

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Global Shipping Programme (GSP) orders have a delivery address in Lichfield (WS13 8UR) with a unique GSP code as part of the address.

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@watch4discount wrote:

Had the global shipping program been opt-in rather than opt-out this would not have happened to me, and possibly a lot of other sellers.

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You're correct; GSP should be opt-in rather than opt-out. However, every so often when eBay does some tinkering sellers become opted back in without their knowledge even though they have consciously opted-out previously. I have no idea if excluding the USA in the applicable postage policy has any effect on GSP or not. So, eBay might actually be exposing sellers to the risk of overseas litigation through no fault of the sellers themselves. 

[rs-2000]

Hi there.. I also received the eBay message above about International Watchman filling a lawsuit.  When they sent the message I had withdrawn the item from sale with no plans to sell it, that was a few weeks before the message. So I have not sold or selling anything related to their trademark.  The watch was a Fossil with a Fossil branded fabric strap in the style of their trademark, it has nothing to do with this company. All seems a bit over the top.? Any advice would be welcome as I don't know what to do. Thanks 

[alan-nice]

Hi - I've said what I am going to do in my posts here. 

Basically as I see it is the law firm's responsibility to contact me, which they haven't. 

Whatever happens, I will not be engaging with the case, and I have told Ebay this, and they can close my account if they choose.  I will not pay the guy behind this a cent.  Ebay has told me they will give me due notice if they are going to close my account, but at present my account is restricted, for one year, but only in regard to selling 'NATO' straps.

[pewterandblackstore]

They must prove that you sold a NATO strap to the USA.  
they have taken screenshots of your listings that show you had them available to sell to the USA but unless there is an actual transaction they have no case as there is no loss to them 

[4_bathrooms]

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@pewterandblackstore wrote:

They must prove that you sold a NATO strap to the USA.  
they have taken screenshots of your listings that show you had them available to sell to the USA but unless there is an actual transaction they have no case as there is no loss to them 

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In many jurisdictions (including the UK) the act of offering infringing items for sale is an offence even if no sale subsequently takes place. I doubt Florida/USA is any different.  

[alan-nice]

Okay, so an update for all those who might find themselves in this or a similiar position.

Even though I have not heard from any laywers and no case has been heard,  Ebay has now restricted my account from selling ALL branded items, even though I have only been accused of selling non-NATO straps as NATO straps  (and this accusation is only possible because one greedy guy in the US who has taken it upon himself to tradmark the name NATO....!).

Obviously I am not happy about this.  It seems I am not only guilty until proven innocent, but also the mere fact of being accused of something has incurred a penalty.

So others know what might be coming, here is what ebay CS had to say about it.

"I have reviewed your account and found that it has been restricted due to the use of counterfeit products. As a result, Your account isn't approved to sell this item, as you were named as a defendant in a lawsuit. This product is either related to that lawsuit or may put you at risk of being named in another lawsuit. Don't relist this item. Doing so will expose you to legal risk and could result in the permanent suspension of your account.

I advise that you refrain from listing any branded items until the issue with the attorneys has been resolved, as there is a potential for copyright infringement. Provided that you work in accordance with the relevant policies and procedures, you will be granted approval to sell such branded items again."

[st3ve74]

I got the same message from ebay about two months ago, and today, when I tried to list another branded item I was unable to, as I got the same message that the person above me got.

So effectively, my account is restricted and I suspect everyone else's that is involved in the NATO lawsuit will be.

Personally, I sold two second hand straps that I had for personal use in the UK; no sells were made in the US.

I started looking at this only today as I got my account restricted. I had been ignoring this so far, not least as the ebay email looked more like spam.

Looks like this is not going to go away anytime soon which means effectively no ebay for selling items. which is a pity buy I feel for people that use ebay as their business. I really feel that there should be some sort of protection from ebay here... not least, as noone has been found guilty yet so being punished as such really sucks!

[alan-nice]

Thanks for the info.  I presume then one could avoid being named in a lawsuit in the US by simply setting up your ebay account so it does not offer items there?   Please correct me if you think I am wrong about this.

[lord_and_lady_m]

In theory yes. I've fully stopped selling in the US, opted out fully of the global shipping.

You have to keep checking in case you're auto opted in.

[alan-nice]

Thanks for the tip about regular checking. 

Also, reading around I know you've helped a lot of people in this situation - so much respect for that.

[lord_and_lady_m]

Thank you. I spoke to someone at the eBay conference recently. They do the auto enrollment if quarter, and send an email giving 48hours notice to say no. 

I've never seen the auto enrol email myself and many I've spoken to say the same. 

[wyntersemporium]

I have got the same today but no idea what they are referring to at all. 

[wyntersemporium]

I've just had eBay saying a company called omnida says I'm selling their rings I'm not selling anything what they have up

i don't want to be sued and neither do I want to lose eBay