Schedule "A" Case INTERNATIONAL WATCHMAN, INC. No.: 1:24-cv-22046 copyright infringement

[nbell999]

I'm in the UK. Got notified about this by Florida case by Sriplaw Attorney Joel B. Rothman last week. I'm a private seller, had a single nato strap listing removed by ebay under VeRO rules two weeks ago. Sounds like they are accusing me of counterfeiting, copyright theft etc. Am reading up on these SAD cases now. Posting to try and connect with others perhaps in the same or similar situation.

[hettsville]

There was a long helpful thread about USA lawsuits but eBay has archived it.

Here's a similar thread.

https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Technical-Issues/Intellectual-Property-violation-CREE-Please-help/m-... 

Maybe @lord_and_lady_m  can help you as they had working group set up.

[nbell999]

Thanks indeed. I also called eBay tonight, just for completeness, and the rep seemed quite knowledgeable. He suggested just writing the laywer to say that the offending (single) listing was taken down in July under their VeRO program so there is no need for them to take action. I am hoping it is that easy...
I have quite a large watch collection so over the years have sold perhaps 5-6 'nato' style unwanted straps. Checking my records one was bought in September for £10 and they paid almost £15 shipping via the eBay Global Scheme. Seemed odd at the time. I assume this was the test purchase they are basing the case on.

[hettsville]

This post I found may be worth reading before you write any letters to the lawyer in Florida.

https://www.justanswer.co.uk/us-law/mvzii-uk-ebay-account-today.html 

[*vyolla*]

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@nbell999 wrote:

 Checking my records one was bought in September for £10 and they paid almost £15 shipping via the eBay Global Scheme. Seemed odd at the time. I assume this was the test purchase they are basing the case on.

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Yes, that will be it. They'll always make a test purchase first to gain proof that you are infringing a copyright that they represent. It's a shame that you shipped that item internationally and made it available to US buyers.

I personally think that the outcome of this will be you having to pay between $3,000 and $5,500 to make this go away. This is usually how these scenarios end.

Do make sure that you get advice from the group that @hettsville has linked you to, it's excellent.

[4_bathrooms]

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@*vyolla* wrote:

I personally think that the outcome of this will be you having to pay between $3,000 and $5,500 to make this go away. This is usually how these scenarios end.

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Maybe I'm missing the point but even if the OP is named as a defendant in a Floridan intellectual property case as they're neither a citizen nor a resident of the USA I can't see how they can be forced into paying anything. They haven't mentioned eBay making any threats about closing/restricting their eBay account so what is the worst that can really happen if they just ignore it?

[nbell999]

It's early days in my research, but these seem to be the likely outcomes;

1. I just ignore it and the case happens to be dismissed (unlikely).

2. I ignore it and a judgement is automatically granted against me. That goes on file in the US, but the chances of them coming after me for it in the UK and winning here is low. My eBay account is also lost (value = £0). From what I read such a judgement, if I lose, would not block me from visiting the US. Chances of me travelling there are very low anyway. Of course, there is a small chance they could get a large judgement which would make it worth pursuing, but it seems the UK legal system does not offer much support for that. The hassle would be debt collectors, baliffs etc.

3. I ask to be removed from the case as only an unwitting/small private seller and the lawyer agrees for free/small sum.

4. I find some others in the same boat - 2 found so far - and we club together for a local lawyer to file the dismissal paperwork. 

5. I pay a large sum to be removed from the case - 100% not happening. I'm not a shop, these were private sales not for profit, and it is morally wrong.  

More research and tracking down others in the same boat this week!

[hettsville]

Have you messaged @lord_and_lady_m  yet and have they been able to help you.

[nbell999]

Yes, message sent, no reply yet. I am on a good Discord server with a large number of claimants that successfully fought back against a similar case in the past, so have lots of potential good support anyway.

[*vyolla*]

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@4_bathrooms wrote:

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@*vyolla* wrote:

I personally think that the outcome of this will be you having to pay between $3,000 and $5,500 to make this go away. This is usually how these scenarios end.

---

Maybe I'm missing the point but even if the OP is named as a defendant in a Floridan intellectual property case as they're neither a citizen nor a resident of the USA I can't see how they can be forced into paying anything. They haven't mentioned eBay making any threats about closing/restricting their eBay account so what is the worst that can really happen if they just ignore it?

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I'm pretty sure that you can register a US debt with the UK courts, which would be horribly expensive to pursue.

[4_bathrooms]

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@nbell999 wrote:

2. I ignore it and a judgement is automatically granted against me. That goes on file in the US, but the chances of them coming after me for it in the UK and winning here is low.

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I'd say the chances are close to zero. Someone from outside the UK can pursue a claim through the County Court systems in England & Wales, Northern Ireland or the County Sheriff Court system in Scotland but these courts only entitle the plaintiff to claim for actual loss which needs to be demonstrated; they do not award compensation nor damages other than the Plaintiff's (reasonable) costs for attending court.

The High Courts representing each jurisdiction deal with intellectual property cases where damages are sought but I'd posit the chance of you receiving a High Court summons for privately selling a watch strap to a buyer in the USA are precisely zero.

If I was a private seller with a choice of paying £2,000+ just to keep my eBay account or to not pay and lose it I know exactly what my choice would be.

[*vyolla*]

Interesting similar scenario here that's quite interesting:

https://copyrightaid.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3102

[bullahshah]

Hello,

I am going through something similar. Did you manage to fight back if you dont mind sharing please. 

[nbell999]

Hi there. I did some research online. Look for SAD / Schedule A cases, ebay, amazon.

I called the court and spoke with the clerk. They said attending by zoom is ok, just need to call the judges chambers to agree. No next court date is set in mine anyway but I check every week or two. I found an example letter online and wrote to the court (registered snailmail) explaining why I should be dismissed from the case (private seller, only two £10 private items sold, did not cause any damage to the plaintiff as they allege). I sent a copy to the lawyer that is bringing the case. They offered to settle for USD6000, which went down to USD1000 when I said I would not pay.  From my research it seems that private sellers like me can get dismissed from the case by the judge, when they are clearly not large scale counterfeiters.  It's different if you sold many items (I didn't) and have a valuable eBay shop that you don't want to risk losing (I don't), or significant funds in eBay (I don't). 

I suspect if I had just ignored them the chance of negative impact is zero/tiny, no matter how many scary letters the lawyers send. The cost of them bringing legal action in the UK would well outweigh any potential benefit even if they won (UK court would not give them some big award). 

For me I decided it was worth trying to put a few hours time into getting the case dismissed. I think there is a better chance of that if I deal with the court politely. I'd settle with the lawyer for USD100 just to be rid of it, but I suspect the lawyer has a minimum of USD500 or so from what I read. It seems that these things can run on for years and are a clear money grab. The plaintiff/laywer does not actually want to go to court, so will just keep dragging it out and offering to settle in the meantime. Sellers get tired and settle as they want the peace of mind, especially if they rely on eBay for sales income.

Hope this helps!  Good luck.

[*vyolla*]

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@bullahshah wrote:

I am going through something similar. Did you manage to fight back if you dont mind sharing please. 

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I would contact  @lord_and_lady_m  and join their group for some advice on how to proceed.

Whose copyright have you infringed?

[bullahshah]

Thanks for the update. I am not sure how to contact the court and whether I should. We are a small UK limited company and only sold 3 items with the image on it $7 each. We bought the items back in 2018 when the image was not registered and later tthey dicided to register the image in 2020. We did not know about this. The stock came to us as a minute part of the larger stock we purchased back in 2018. We never purchased the item again. 

It is Polbank and the law firm Vogt. 

Business is not doing well I cannot pay any settlement. They offered $1500 which I refused and requested them to remove the payment amount and I am happy to sign the cease and decist as clearly no infringement was done intentianally. 

They are now not replying to my email and said that this was the final offer. 

There will be a default judgement for $15,000 in a default judgement if I do not respond. The case is in Illinois Chicago and there are about 51 defendants. 

They are claiming really strange things in there complain that they cannot trace anyone on the ebay stores as they are international sellers and part of a bigger counterfiet ring whereas they could easily see our details on our ebay storefront. Funnily they presented our 6 negative feedbacks on our ebay store in the last 1 year and forgot to present 765 positives to the court!

They served me via email whcih went into my spam folder and only found out when I was notified by ebay by then I did not have enough time to sought any legal advice not that I cannot afford it. 

Advice will be very appreciated. 

[bullahshah]

I have contaced them they have not replied so far. 

[bullahshah]

Sorry I meant cannot afford legal advice

[bullahshah]

and in my case it seems like they are very eager to obtain the default judgement as they are not giving anytime to negotiate and have already filed the motion for a default judgement with the court and the date for it is tomorrow. 

[lord_and_lady_m]

Hi,

These Schedule A cases reallly wiped me out last year and early on this year, so i've switched myself off to them for now.

Head over to reddit - type in schedule a lawsuit, or smiley lawsuit and you should start to find threads over there.

There is a discord server, so if you find the right people in the threads on reddit you will find your way in. It's very much self help though for now as I cannot spend anytime on these for my own health and my own business, for now.

Please don't panic. Search through your paperwork for a hearing. If there is anything scheduled, get on a hearing call and speak to the judge. There are some good judges about that will tell the lawfirms to drop people that have spoken up. I listened in to an awful lot this year, they're really quite interesting, yet very frustrating to listen to.

Sorry I cannot offer more for now, i'm just a bit broken after hundreds of people contact me and there's thousands of these cases, it just gets really demanding on my time. Apologies.