Royal Mail to ban shipping of ALL bladed items from 22nd April 2024

[lightnix0205]

Not sure if this has already been covered (I couldn't find anything about it using the Search function) so...

From the Royal Mail website...

IMPORTANT NOTICE: From 22 April 2024 we will be prohibiting ‘Knives or Blades’ defined by s141A Criminal Justice Act 1988 and ‘Bladed Products’ as defined by s41 of Offensive Weapons Act 2019 from the Royal Mail network. Currently, these items can only be sent using our Age Verification service and returned using Royal Mail Tracked Returns®. However, from 22 April 2024 sending and returning these items to UK destinations via any Royal Mail service will be prohibited, meaning that these items cannot be sent even if our Age Verification service is used. Our Age verification service will still be available for other age restricted items, including alcohol and, unless prohibited elsewhere, you can still send items not covered by the Acts.

‘Knives or Blades’ defined by s141A Criminal Justice Act 1988 or ‘Bladed Products’ as defined by s41 of Offensive Weapons Act 2019. Such items include, but are not limited to, any knife blade, any kitchen knife (regardless of size or design), bread knives, knives that can be used for hobbies and trades (regardless of whether they are marketed as knives, for instance, utility knives and snap-off cutters), gardening and farming tools that have a blade, any trade tool that could commonly be described as a knife, butcher’s knives (including meat cleavers), cutlery knives, scissors with sharp edges, sporting equipment with a blade, replica and antique knives (including those used for re-enactment purposes), handmade and bespoke knives, open razors (where the blade is exposed), any axe, any sword, survival knives, or machete. Also, see Weapons below.

https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/96/~/prohibited-and-restricted-items---a...

Been thinking of getting myself a Magimix food processor and am wondering whether this will include baldes for that, too.

[4_bathrooms]

It's worth pointing out those rules only apply to personal (retail) customers. Knives and other bladed items can still be sent by business account customers (RM account customers should read bladed items) provided they send such items in compliance with the law; i.e. such as requiring age verification on delivery.

It will be interesting to see how this affects eBay's own knives policy. If eBay are sensible they will update the policy to reflect RM's new rules for private sellers so there isn't a backdoor way of bypassing them. However, given I can easily find axes, hatchets, stanley knives etc. being offered by private sellers with free collection in person and/or offered to be sent via services that don't require age verification I won't hold my breath.  

[lightnix0205]

Well that's confusing. How does it square with the bit that says...

...these items cannot be sent even if our Age Verification service is used.

...???

[4_bathrooms]

Actually...even in the guidance for account customers it states:

"IMPORTANT NOTICE: on and from Monday 22 April 2024 Bladed Items will be prohibited by Royal Mail for all UK destinations."

So, that's it. Fom 22nd April nobody (private or business) can send a "bladed item" to a UK address using any of Royal Mail's services; not even with age verification on delivery. This doesn't just affect items being sold via eBay; a business can't send a blade of any description they sold via their own website via Royal Mail.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for making knives more difficult to acquire by under-18s. In my immediate local area there has been two fatal stabbings committed by under-18s in the last five years (and I don't live in London). I also have an extended family member who has recently been left with life-changing injuries following an unprovoked attack by a knife-wielding teenager. However, it doesn't matter what Royal Mail asks a sender to confirm via a tick-box; if the platform facilitating the sale isn't insisting on age verification during purchase and isn't checking how a bladed item will be conveyed to the buyer what difference does it really make? 

[kangamoose_shop]

Is Royal Mail going to ban shipping "bladed items" from the UK to international destinations as well ?  Will they refuse to transport international purchases that were shipped by (USPS or other foreign Postal services) to UK destinations? An item shipped by USPS from the US to a UK adress is delivered by Royal Mail...

There are lots of UK sellers on ebay.com selling axes and knives to other countries, I can imagine a scenario where an undeliverable  (or simply a return) package containing a potato peeler can't be returned to sender because RM won't  allow returning the item to it's original UK sender.  

[tommystrezures]

My understanding is that it affects all bladed items, from RM's perspective irrespective of whether its a cutlery set etc. I imagine ebay will be in discussions with RM and other carriers in particular to see if they are going to be taking the same stance as RM. TO that end I would hope that ebay would remove Royal Mail from any of these types of items that are available.

All items effectively will need to be sent using an age verified service, which RM don't have.

Also at @4_bathrooms in your original post on this thread there are correct, there are too many backdoors currently on ebay. There is a particluar brand of knives that continually seem to be put in an incorrect category. Which actually means I can purchase them without a credit card and just use paypal. However when reported ebay says the item does not breach policy - but thats AI for you...

[tommystrezures]

YES it will be a complete ban.

[kangamoose_shop]

They are not making any exceptions for Businesses, there will be no Royal Mail services available to anyone that can be used to ship a bladed item to a UK destination.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: From 22 April 2024 we will be prohibiting ‘Knives or Blades’ defined by s141A Criminal Justice Act 1988 and ‘Bladed Products’ as defined by s41 of Offensive Weapons Act 2019 from the Royal Mail network. Currently, these items can only be sent using our Age Verification service and returned using Royal Mail Tracked Returns®. However, from 22 April 2024 sending and returning these items to UK destinations via any Royal Mail service will be prohibited, meaning that these items cannot be sent even if our Age Verification service is used.

But no worry, you'll still be able to order DULL scissors, just not sharp ones.  You know, the kind that are safe to run with while you have them in your hands. Carpentry saw handles will be fine, as long as the blade isn't included. 

Good thing that Tom Hanks was on a Fedex plane that crashed on that deserted island and not a Royal Mail plane, he  put those ice skate blades to good use.

[4_bathrooms]

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@tommystrezures wrote:

My understanding is that it affects all bladed items, from RM's perspective irrespective of whether its a cutlery set etc.

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Yes, it doesn't matter. If it can be called a "knife" or "bladed" it will not be allowed. The definition comes from the Offensive Weapons Act 2019 which references section 141A of the Criminal Justice Act 1988:

"Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to—

(a)any knife, knife blade or razor blade,

(b)any axe, and

(c)any other article which has a blade or which is sharply pointed and which is made or adapted for use for causing injury to the person."

The act doesn't differentiate between a dull butter knife and an 8" sharpened carving knife with a pointed tip; it just states "any knife" and "any other article which has a blade".

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@tommystrezures wrote:

All items effectively will need to be sent using an age verified service, which RM don't have.

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Royal Mail does have age verification available on some services but from 22nd April they will not allow anything bladed at all to be sent within the UK.

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@tommystrezures wrote:

in your original post on this thread there are correct, there are too many backdoors currently on ebay. There is a particluar brand of knives that continually seem to be put in an incorrect category. Which actually means I can purchase them without a credit card and just use paypal. However when reported ebay says the item does not breach policy - but thats AI for you...

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Lets hope eBay starts spending their regulatory operating fee wisely. They've got no excuse for not ensuring listings are compliant now...

[4_bathrooms]

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@kangamoose_shop wrote:

Is Royal Mail going to ban shipping "bladed items" from the UK to international destinations as well ? 

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It states such items are being banned "from the Royal Mail network". That would imply they can't be sent on any Royal Mail service including international.

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@kangamoose_shop wrote:

Will they refuse to transport international purchases that were shipped by (USPS or other foreign Postal services) to UK destinations?

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Each domestic UPU postal provider knows which items are prohibited by the receiving postal provider. The sending postal provider should refuse to accept affected items that are destined for the UK. Of course, there's nothing stopping the sender misdeclaring the item but that's where eBay's regulatory compliance - i.e. stopping the item being sold in the first place - should kick in. 

[kangamoose_shop]

Has there been some recent legal action against Royal Mail where an  individual attempted to claim Royal Mail as being responsible for providing the attacker access to the knife (or other weapon) used in the attack?   It sounds like shipping a knife to a minor has been prohibited for a long time, but this affects adults as well.   The wording of the whole thing bans practically any object with any sort of "blade" with no respect to length or material. 

I'm imagining that some Postman forgot to do an ID verification, so someone took the opportunity to blame Royal Mail for someone getting hurt.  As everyone knows, ONLY a Royal Mail delivery error  could have allowed  their young gang member son the chance to  obtain a weapon...   A ban like this eliminates the chance of such an error. 

[tommystrezures]

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@kangamoose_shop wrote:

Has there been some recent legal action against Royal Mail where an  individual attempted to claim Royal Mail as being responsible for providing the attacker access to the knife (or other weapon) used in the attack?   

NO as previously explained and mentioned its regarding the offensive weapons act of 2019. The rules have been tightened substantially over the last couple of years. It is nothing to do with RM with deliverying a knife etc. That is misinformation. 

I'm imagining that some Postman forgot to do an ID verification, so someone took the opportunity to blame Royal Mail for someone getting hurt.  As everyone knows, ONLY a Royal Mail delivery error  could have allowed  their young gang member son the chance to  obtain a weapon...   A ban like this eliminates the chance of such an error. 

Your last statment is a complete..... I wont waste my breath answering it.....

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[4_bathrooms]

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@kangamoose_shop wrote:

Has there been some recent legal action against Royal Mail where an  individual attempted to claim Royal Mail as being responsible for providing the attacker access to the knife (or other weapon) used in the attack? 

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Not that I'm aware of. However, there have been many recent cases (like this one) where teenagers were able to purchase knives or other bladed items online then use them to kill or injure which has sparked numerous campaigns. It often isn't mentioned where the item was purchased from - the article states in that case it was purchased online using a fake name then delivered to a Post Office. So, the seller had broken the law twice: first by not performing age verification during purchase and second by having it delivered to a collection point. There's no mention of the consequences faced by the seller or whether they couldn't be prosecuted because they were non-domestic and the sale was facilitated via an online marketplace.

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@kangamoose_shop wrote:

It sounds like shipping a knife to a minor has been prohibited for a long time, but this affects adults as well.   The wording of the whole thing bans practically any object with any sort of "blade" with no respect to length or material. 

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Selling a knife to a minor has been an offence for a long time. Shipping a knife or a bladed item to a residential address or a collection point was only made a specific offence more recently. The wording stems from the act mentioned earlier.

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@kangamoose_shop wrote:

I'm imagining that some Postman forgot to do an ID verification, so someone took the opportunity to blame Royal Mail for someone getting hurt.  

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If that happened then Royal Mail would have been to blame; the postie would have been acting under their employ when they delivered the item. I think the reasoning goes further but Royal Mail certainly wouldn't want to risk being held liable if one of their employees screwed up and someone ended up wounded or worse as a result. 

[kangamoose_shop]

That's what I suspect, a question of "real or imagined" liability on the part of Royal Mail.  They're essentially eliminating themselves of any chance of being held responsible in any sort of injury caused by any sort of knife. Royal Mail makes delivery errors all the time, but it's no longer possible for any business or individual to legally ship a knife to any individual or business using Royal Mail with no exceptions.

A bit off topic, but this reminds me of laws in other countries regarding sale of alcohol in a bar. It's already illegal to serve alcohol to a customer who is already intoxicated, but the bar can even be held liable if a drunk customer leaves the bar, gets in his car, and causes an accident.  This led to several "tricks of the trade", such as bars selling tokens redeemable for drinks ("we didn't sell him anything to drink, we sold TOKENS"), or a "customer card" issued to the customer after an ID check and a signed statement releasing the bar of any responsibility for the customers actions.

It will be interesting to see if other UK transport companies follow suit.  If so, this is going to have a detrimental effect on a lot of farmers, carpenters and a host of other small companies.  I somehow doubt this alone will have any effect on violent street crimes.