Return Item lost by Royal Mail

[freestyla_24]

An item (Faulty) was being returned for a refund but appears to have gone missing , the tracking, Tracked 48 shows it at South Midlands DC where it has been since 13/9/24.  If it fails to show who claims from Royal Mail, the original seller or the buyer who posted it back?

[thesmokingrunner]

The claim should be made by the person who paid for the postage:

If the seller provided a return label then they claim; if the buyer paid for the return then they claim.

[myriad*seller]

If the return does not show as "attempted delivery" back to seller, the buyer will not get a refund

So the buyer needs to claim for the lost item

Or if the seller is really nice, they could refund without being forced and make the claim themselves

But without "attempted delivery" showing on the return, the buyer will be out of pocket, so would be the one to claim 

[freestyla_24]

But i dont have the proof of posting, or where it was posted, when it was posted and several other details which RM require on the claim form.!!

[moldosgifts]

Are you the seller or the buyer, If your the seller you dont need to fill out any form all that is for the buyer as they have those details at hand.

[freestyla_24]

Im getting conflicting answers here - one says that whoever paid for postage should claim and as that was me (Ebay returns label). Another says the buyer as they have the proof of posting. Who is right ?

[sml192]

It is the responsibility of whoever paid for the return postage to make the claim with Royal Mail:

If it was a 'Remorse return' then that will be the buyer;

If it was an 'Item not as described' dispute then that will be the seller.

EBay requires proof of delivery or attempted delivery in order for the buyer to be refunded, however, it should be noted that if the buyer purchased from a business seller, a return is arranged/paid for by the seller, and the buyer has evidence of the return (proof of posting) then under the 'Consumer Rights Act 2015' they are still entitled to a refund from the seller even if the item fails to arrive back with the seller. 

[freestyla_24]

Its an item "not as described" which as the seller i am obliged to pay for return postage...BUT.. to claim from Royal Mail for lost item they need a copy of proof of posting and the buyer has this, so how do i claim?

[sml192]

Good question.   I presume you have asked the buyer to provide a copy? 

[dch2112011]

I am not convinced that a buyer would not be refunded if a return paid for by the seller is lost in the post - the reason is that under return postage for sellers - advice :

In general, whoever pays for return shipping is responsible for ensuring the item arrives at its destination. If you paid for the return postage, you'll need to work with the postal carrier to try and find the item. If the buyer paid, they’ll need to contact the carrier instead

In essence what I believe would happen if there is tracking ebay will see it is in the carrier system and extend the time for the return to be found - at the end of this extension if the item is still not delivered they should reimburse the buyer from the seller's funds and advise the seller to claim from the carrier.

This may also apply if a seller paid a buyer to buy a label because the buyer is purchasing on behalf of the seller 

Of course the reverse is true if the buyer paid themselves for return postage

[myriad*seller]

The buyer won't get a refund via eBay if the item does not have a status of at least "attempted delivery"

They would need to assert their rights via other means to get the refund, which they are inevitably due, but eBay will not force a seller to refund where the item gets lost in the post

eBay returns require a status of "attempted delivery" or "delivery" for the buyer to be refunded

The buyer is given a proof of posting receipt with the tracking number on it when they hand the parcel over to be returned (yes, even for pre-paid items) - this is what is needed to make the claim for the lost item

[dch2112011]

Given ebay's statement that the purchaser of the return postage is responsible for ensuring the item is delivered, I believe that the return when lost becomes the seller's responsibility and the delivery is treated as you say  and as such the buyer would be reimbursed just as they would when an item posted to the buyer  is lost - both are the responsibility of the seller.

The evidence of receipt by the carrier via tracking completes the buyer's responsibility to return the item - the buyer cannot claim from the carrier but the seller can - so the seller reimburses the buyer and the carrier reimburses the seller  - obviously only when the seller pays for the return.

If the tracking did not prove carrier receipt then the buyer would not be compensated

It would not work if the seller did not reimburse and also claimed compensation from the carrier in effect this would mean the seller got paid twice.

At least this is how it should work whether it does without pointing it out to CS is another matter.

[thesmokingrunner]

@freestyla_24 

This thread seems to have sidetracked into a discussion on refunds for missing items. I do wish people would reply to the actual question rather than respond to their own "This is what you really meant..." interpretations. So to get it back to the actual subject:

Right. I understood from the your original post that you were the seller of an item which was now being returned; it had possibly gone missing and your question was who should make a claim from Royal Mail for lost post. My reply was that the person who paid for the label makes the claim, to which you replied that you didn't have proof of posting, dispatch information (time, date or location) and various other details required by RM.

As the purchaser of the label only you can make a claim for lost postage, but as the provider of an eBay returns label you are not the one who uses the label and do not therefore have all the information required in the event that you need to make a claim. In your particular situation you need to contact the buyer (the person who used the label) and ask if they can provide you with the required information.

Now this is where things can get potentially tricky, because if your buyer doesn't want to help (for whatever reason) you won't be able to claim for a lost parcel. [Don't get too excited though - chances are your maximum compensation would be a book of 1st Class stamps anyway, but I digress...]. And meantime the buyer will never receive a refund because the parcel won't be recorded as delivered if it's been lost.

I'm now actually wondering if this is a bit of a hole in eBay's returns process: if a buyer is unwilling to cooperate with a seller when a return goes missing then the seller would be unable to lodge a claim with RM and the buyer will never receive a refund. Result: everybody loses...

The best (and possibly only) course of action for you is to try try and obtain the information from the buyer - and yes, I know that would be nigh-on impossible if the transaction ended acrimoniously - in order that you can submit a claim to RM. Failing that I think your only other option is to contact eBay, though I really wouldn't like to second-guess the response.

[dch2112011]

Why do you think that the buyer would not be refunded, rather than rebuke posts related to the issue you might be wise to read them. 

If the label was purchased by the seller, the seller will have all the information  to make a claim - name, address, tracking number - copy of label - purchase receipt. What info does a buyer have that the seller would need to make a claim?

If purchased via packlink - the claim is through packlink  unless RM  - I do not understand why  the seller needs to know which post box - post office or drop off point was used - which is the only possible additional information that a buyer could supply - the tracking shows the item's journey  - even if lost !

If the buyer has not posted it then the tracking will show that information - in which case they will not be refunded but still have the item. 

[freestyla_24]

Many thanks Smokinggunner - this reply has been very helpful. I have messaged the original buyer but have yet to receive a response. One thing that has occured to me was that the cost of the return label i paid for (issued by Ebay) was £3.35 - this would not have covered Royal Mails charge. It was a medim parcel and the minimum price would have been £5.10 (Tracked) - not sure if this is relevant or not.

[lucy_farmer]

If the parcel was posted for return *without* tracking (which, if the return label you paid for wasn't enough for tracked postage, it will have been),  you need to find out if a  'proof of posting' is enough for 'evidence of receipt by the carrier' (Royal Mail in this instance) for ebay's system?

If ebay think that's enough, the buyer has completed *their* part/responsibility of returning the item (i.e. getting it in the post) which *should* trigger a refund, from ebay, for them.

But they (the buyer) will be the one with the proof of posting, so if they want a refund they'll have to send it to the seller or put it in the dispute/refund process themselves.

The seller who bought the (untracked) returns label will have no proof of posting as they didn't actually post it.

The parcel has to be seen to have been posted and the returns label used, or the buyer could potentially have both the refund and the item..... and if it *was* sent untracked, the 'proof of posting' is the only other way.

I think.

Hope I'm not talking cobblers.....

This one is making my brain ache.

I hope you get an ebay CS with some brains. (Try ringing early to hopefully get Ireland, not the Philippines...)

[thesmokingrunner]

@freestyla_24 

You're very welcome. Hopefully the buyer will respond and you'll be able to complete your RM claim form with whatever information you require from them.

As for the cost of the postage label this might be a red herring. eBay's return labels show a cost of £3.35 - lower than it would cost were the label to be purchased at a PO - and cover parcels up to 2kg in weight. I'm a little puzzled that you say it was a medium parcel though - if it was the buyer would not have been able to use the eBay label when returning the item, though your original post states it was at South Midlands DC on 13th September, so it must have been accepted into the system. I wouldn't get too concerned about it - the parcel's in the system (somewhere).

[lucy_farmer]

Ah! so ebay's return labels *aren't* like the normal Post office/Royal Mail postage things.....?!

So ignore all my ramblings about tracking versus proof-of-postage!

[4_bathrooms]

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@freestyla_24 wrote:

One thing that has occured to me was that the cost of the return label i paid for (issued by Ebay) was £3.35 - this would not have covered Royal Mails charge. It was a medim parcel and the minimum price would have been £5.10 (Tracked) - not sure if this is relevant or not.

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I'm guessing eBay automatically sent the return label as part of the returns process meaning they used the size and weight declared in the listing ("Package weight" & "Package dimensions") to decide which Tracked 48 label to send. Those fields are optional and if they were left blank eBay probably assumed it was a Small Parcel.

Royal Mail has specific terms (PDF file) for non-account Tracked 24 and Tracked 48 which state they're not liable for anything that happens if any of the information on the label (including weight) is incorrect. Does the tracking show where the item was accepted into RM's network? A Post Office counter should have noticed any discrepancy in the size or weight declared and refused to accept the package.

If you want to stop eBay automatically creating return labels for INAD returns you need to ensure the RMA box at the very bottom of this page is ticked. You will still need to upload a return label for future returns but will be able to upload your own.

[thesmokingrunner]

@dch2112011 

Why do I think that the buyer would not be refunded? Because a refund is only (automatically) processed when the item is recorded as either being delivered or an attempted delivery has been made. In this case the item has not been delivered - it is apparently stuck at South Midlands DC - and as such no refund will be made to the buyer because the item hasn't been returned. Bit obvious, that...

As for what information the seller needs in order to complete a Royal Mail claim form, I know not. eBay produced the label for the buyer through the returns process - I have no idea what information the seller receives as part of the process because in all the time I did sell on eBay I never had to deal with a return.

You'd be better off asking the seller what info the buyer has which the seller needs to make a claim rather than asking a thrid party who is not privvy to that information. However, in Post #8 the OP does say they need a copy of the proof of posting which the buyer has so that seems to be a pretty good reason for the seller to contact the buyer, don't you think?

Oh, and the buyer has posted the item - the original post stated it was at South Midlands DC on 13th September - so your last "If the buyer has not posted it..." sentence is semantically null.