Item Delivered to buyers front door but buyer said they have not revcied & eBay ruled in their favor

[sabrebf]

I sold an item, posted through Yodel. In Yodels tracking it shows a picture that the package was delivered to the buyer's front door (the buyer confirmed it was his door in ebay chat). However, the buyer is saying he did not receive the item. Obviously going by the information I have the parcel was delivered I even have a signature on delivery by Yodel. However, the buyer brought the case to eBay & eBay ruled in his favour & I now have to refund him the full amount despite the fact there is proof of delivery. 

[papso22]

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@eastern_standard_time wrote:

You are sadly mistaken.

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Not according to the law. 

A business is responsible for delivery to the customer, a private seller's responsibility ends when they hand the parcel to the courier.  However, ebay's take on the law tends to give buyers more rights, and sellers less, than the law actually provides.

[eastern_standard_time]

We're talking about eBay, aren't we? Business or private seller, if you take that line over an undelivered item you will lose every time.

[papso22]

The problem is the grey area where there is online evidence of delivery and yet the buyer says they don't have it.  Ebay publish seller protection parameters for these (online tracking showing delivery = protection) and then seem to go against them but we don't get told why seller protection was not granted.

This protection applies, or should apply, equally to business and private accounts. 

Straightforward undelivered items (no online evidence of delivery), is easier to deal with and understand.

[4_bathrooms]

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@eastern_standard_time wrote:

You are sadly mistaken.

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A private seller is only bound by the Sale of Goods Act. As per the SoGA:

"Where, in pursuance of a contract of sale, the seller is authorised or required to send the goods to the buyer, delivery of the goods to a carrier (whether named by the buyer or not) for the purpose of transmission to the buyer is prima facie deemed to be a delivery of the goods to the buyer."

eBay only requires a seller (private or business) to obtain an online confirmation of delivery or attempted delivery for the purposes of their Money Back Guarantee. The one exception is orders with a cost of £450 or more which require a signature on delivery. 

[4_bathrooms]

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@sabrebf wrote:

Hi, Yes I know this however i'm not happy with the outcome as my money has been taken away from me & there is clear proof that the parcel was delivered to the customer. (There's a picture of their front door and a signature)

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What explanation have eBay given for deciding the case in the buyer's favour?

INR cases are typically automated - as long as there is an online confirmation of delivery (or attempted delivery) to the delivery address provided with the order the case is automatically closed in the seller's favour. If you sent the item to a different address - including one the buyer may have given you in a message - you would not have been protected. Also, if the value of the order was over £450 you would have needed a signature on delivery else you would not have been protected. The only other time an INR case might be closed in the buyer's favour is if the item arrived after the latest "estimated delivery date" but this is normally treated as INAD rather than INR.  

[robbtyke132010]

I think Marco at eBay is a real dreamboat - however when I ring up eBay he pretends to be at lunch!

[stephengminohara]

Your item was not delivered to the customer, it was delivered to no body, it was left outside of a door, that is not a delivery.

The address states the name of a person at an address, where is the proof that it was delivered into the hands of an actual person?

[4_bathrooms]

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@stephengminohara wrote:

Your item was not delivered to the customer, it was delivered to no body, it was left outside of a door, that is not a delivery.

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The person you are replying to is a private seller. As has already been pointed out in this thread where private sellers are concerned the law considers delivery to carrier as being delivered. As far as eBay is concerned an online delivery confirmation (with a signature for items that sell for over £450) is considered as the item having been delivered.

Why eBay decided the OP was liable for refunding their buyer will probably never be known as this thread is over 5 months old...  

[edwardian-dreams]

They got a signature on delivery didn’t they

the door didn’t sign a person did 

[sabrebf]

Hi all just an update on this as I’ve seen a few people reply in last few days. 

First of all thanks to everyone for replying trying to find a solution I appreciate it. In the end I was awarded £20 compensation. (I didn’t take out extra insurance so my fault). In the end I had to give the buyer the £200 back because the buyer reported they didn’t receive the item (despite Yodel having proof the delivery with a signature & a picture of the parcel by the buyers door, which by the way the buyer admitted was their door). 

My biggest gripe with this entire situation is that I’m not a big business I’m a private seller who was selling something at the time to raise a few extra pounds for Xmas presents. Now is the buyer lying  about receive the item or not, to be honest I can’t be 100% sure, however in my opinion EBay should see that from my point of view (the seller) the item was delivered on time to the correct address & as a private seller losing that£200 is quite a lot of money. 

Again thanks to all for trying to help I do appreciate it. 

[4_bathrooms]

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@sabrebf wrote:

In the end I had to give the buyer the £200 back because the buyer reported they didn’t receive the item (despite Yodel having proof the delivery with a signature & a picture of the parcel by the buyers door, which by the way the buyer admitted was their door). 

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Thank you for coming back. What reason did eBay give for not protecting you as per their published policy? I find it very hard to believe they closed the case in the buyer's favour without giving a reason for doing so.

Depending upon the reason eBay gave you may or may not be able to pursue this through the Financial Ombudsman Service.

[*vyolla*]

I have seen a couple of item not received eBay claims in which the buyer has won (usually on appeal, not first off) if the photo shows the package sitting on the doorstep. 

In these circumstances I believe that eBay refund the buyer themselves though.

[sabrebf]

Sorry, I misspoke it wasn't eBay I needed to purchase the insurance from it was with Yodel. This is where things get even sticker. The buyer paid & chose shipping through Yodel and they only purchased the £20 insurance through Yodel. (If it was up to me I'd never use Yodel). 

So from eBay's point of view everything went fine, I got paid, shipped the packaged off on time & the package was delivered to the right place and signed for. (Which is why I had to refund the buyer and not eBay). It's with Yodel who are the major problem they "lost" the package or have no idea where it is (despite it being signed for)

[sabrebf]

See I would have no issue if the only evidence was the photo of the package on the doorstep (things get stolen from doorsteps all the time) however there's a proof of delivery via a signature. So someone was handed the parcel and it was signed for. 

[*vyolla*]

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@sabrebf wrote:

See I would have no issue if the only evidence was the photo of the package on the doorstep (things get stolen from doorsteps all the time) however there's a proof of delivery via a signature. So someone was handed the parcel and it was signed for. 

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Ah, none of this makes sense then, I can see no reason why you should lose out here.

[4_bathrooms]

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@sabrebf wrote:

Sorry, I misspoke it wasn't eBay I needed to purchase the insurance from it was with Yodel. This is where things get even sticker. The buyer paid & chose shipping through Yodel and they only purchased the £20 insurance through Yodel. (If it was up to me I'd never use Yodel). 

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Who actually paid Yodel? Was it yourself or was it the buyer? 

For the purposes of eBay's Money Back Guarantee a seller is not responsible for refunding the buyer provided they have an online delivery confirmation from the carrier; a signature is required for items worth £450 or more. As long as a seller had met those requirements eBay would consider the item as being delivered and would not hold the seller responsible for refunding the buyer in an "item not received" case. Any insurance cover the seller had taken out with the carrier would be immaterial.

Again - what specific reason did eBay give for refunding the buyer at your expense? 

[sabrebf]

After looking back at my sold history, it was actually free shipping but the buyer chose the method of shipping. Don't know if this changes anything. 

[4_bathrooms]

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@sabrebf wrote:

After looking back at my sold history, it was actually free shipping but the buyer chose the method of shipping. Don't know if this changes anything. 

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It doesn't change anything.

I'm trying to help you but if you can't answer one question - which is the same question I will now have asked for the fourth time - I'm going to give up trying:

What specific reason did eBay give for refunding the buyer at your expense? You will find their answer in the (now closed) case or the email notification you received. It will state something like "We have decided to refund the buyer because..."

I think I'm starting to understand why you lost the case.

[sabrebf]

Here's the answer they gave.

"

I have checked all the details for you and can see the buyer has provided us with a valid proof of non delivery from Yodel where they have confirmed the item was not delivered to their address and it has been lost in transit instead, hence a refund was issued to them. I have attached the screen shot of their response with this email for your reference. Please know that being an online platform we have to rely on tracking details for you as the seller and to a proof of non-delivery from the courier for a buyer to make a valid and fair decision on the case. Here, as the courier themselves admitted their fault so we had to close the in buyer's favour.

So, as a next step, I would recommend you contact the courier and file a claim with them for a lost parcel with the same attachment I have sent to you. I am optimistic that they would be able to help with your lost parcel claim. Further, I have thoroughly researched the case and noticed that you had sent this item through the Packlink services. When an item is sent with Packlink, we recommend our sellers to open a claim with Packlink. At the same time, you keep your buyer posted about the situation and steps you are taking and try to resolve the issue with them.

To read more about the way that Packlink investigate your issues you can follow this link:

https://support.packlink.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207739739

Lastly, I can see my colleague has already addressed this concern for you. If you have any new information or additional questions for us, I'd be happy to help you. For now, we can take no further action and consider this matter closed.

I understand this might not be the answer you had hoped for. I wish you all the best for the future.

I trust I’ve explained the next steps clearly. We sincerely appreciate your patience and understanding. Thank you for contacting eBay Customer Service and for being a part of eBay for 11 years.

Kind regards,

"

[4_bathrooms]

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@sabrebf wrote:

"I have checked all the details for you and can see the buyer has provided us with a valid proof of non delivery from Yodel where they have confirmed the item was not delivered to their address and it has been lost in transit instead, hence a refund was issued to them.

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Something is not adding up here. Can you please answer the following questions:

1. Did you send the item to the delivery address shown in the order details? 
2. Does the online tracking state anything other than "Delivered"?
3. What the heck is this "valid proof of non delivery from Yodel"? Is it a letter, an email...what does it say about the delivery?

As far as I can tell you should still have been protected by eBay as per the terms of their MBG.