First time having someone request a refund…dodgy?

[tytherley12]

Hi, I sold our Dual Fuel Rangemaster oven today.  It was collected by the purchaser this morning. The purchaser has, this evening, requested a refund claiming that the item isn’t as described.  The purchaser wanted the ovens to be electric, but one is gas and one is electric. I even put in the listing that the main oven is gas, because I wanted to advertise that it has been barely used. Photo of listing below. I also showed her husband which oven compartment was gas when he collected it.  In her messages this evening she has accused me of editing the listing which I haven’t!  To add, she had sent a question before she placed a bid, which I didn’t get around to replying to, which said “Hi can I ask is the oven electric or gas just in the listing it says gas oven but it says dual fuel” so she clearly did know it had a gas oven. Is it likely that EBay will rule in her favour do you think? I don’t really sell on eBay and this lady clearly knows eBay inside and out judging by the content of her messages. It’s really thrown me.  I’ve spoken to eBay and the eBay lady basically said the buyer can do what it likes. Surely this can’t be right? Thanks for reading and any advice. 

[edwardian-dreams]

Here’s a link to request a call back

without going through the stupid robot 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/eua?id=5275&mkevt=1&mkpid

[dancewithadingo]

Good Morning Ty

There are two cards that you can play and in your position I would. Firstly you could WRITE to the CEO with full details and I am confident that something would happen.

Secondly and the better of the options is to contact the media ie a national newspaper. They would have a field day. This would make an interesting story.  The benefits to be gained are that most papers pay for stories,they are desperate for content,so even if you don't get your oven back or the money refunded you may well end up quids in ie being paid for the article.

You can even tell your buyer just what you intend doing and who knows this may just get them to see sense and come to a mutually acceptable arrangement. After all I am sure that they would find any publicity and the full details of the saga embarrassing. Equally you must also face some scrutiny,if you don't mind that then go ahead.

I have always found my friends in the media to be news/story hungry and accommodating and tenacious.  

Good luck

[xyz307xyz]

Three ebay reps have been tagged on this thread. [I've seen many comments from others on other threads that give them a hard time. But I genuinely have felt they are trying to be helpful in their responses. Clearly the three of them do not run ebay by themselves nor make all the decisions.]

I hope one of them will explain ebay's thinking (including looking at all communications between you and the buyer which we've not seen) on this thread - or to you privately.

How long is there to go before the case times out? I suggest waiting as long as possible and not contacting the buyer - there doesn't seem to be much point in negotiating (based on what you have said).

Someone did mention looking at the buyers feedback, and what they have left for others - did you respond? If so I missed it. Does it look like they might have tried similar before? And is their good feedback recent?

[tytherley12]

They have left a couple of pretty negative reviews. In all honesty, I’m not at all concerned about their reviews because after this experience I would be mad to sell anything else on eBay. I just can’t afford to take the risk and use a selling site that seems to let unscrupulous buyers do this kind of thing and do absolutely nothing to help the victim. It couldn’t be a more straight forward case, yet still I am being told by CS that there is absolutely nothing I can do, and now I am going to be substantially out of pocket, and the stress this is causing me is immense.   

[xyz307xyz]

I can't see their feedback or what they have left - but ebay employees can. Hopefully they will take a look in coming to a decision (with all the other factors) on whether the buyers' claim is justified, potentially a genuine mistake by the buyer or the potentially whether the buyer is trying to play the system.

Essentially you/we are looking for some explanation of "the CS person agrees that the listing is clear." but the buyer can still raise a INAD claim and whether you have to accept it, including losing the transportation cost.

[tytherley12]

Absolutely right.  It felt very much like the CS person either isn’t allowed to do anything other than read from a script, or that eBay genuinely knows this loop hole / scam, but isn’t prepared to do anything about it.  The irony of all this is that if the buyer had just messaged me and said they’d made a mistake, I would have been sympathetic and agreed for them to return the item. But being accused of ‘changing the listing’ and lying just doesn’t sit well with me. I had no idea that eBay would support someone that is so clearly in the wrong. It’s so confusing because it’s completely unjustifiable! 

[*vyolla*]

It is bonkers that cash on collection is no longer a payment option, it's such an obvious loophole open to abuse. A sofa collected by somebody that lives 500 miles away can be subject to an item not as described claim and the sellers only options are to arrange to get it back and then refund (I've seen some fun and games with sellers organising couriers and the buyer decides to go out that day, leaving the seller with the courier cost and still no collected item), or to refund without getting their sofa back. It makes absolutely no sense to do away with cash on collection, in fact we've been lobbying for years to make it the only payment option available for collection listings given that all other selling platforms do it. 

A common scam was for a buyer to go and collect their item and then issue a not as described chargeback, giving them a free item and a full refund. PS5s and xBoxes seemed to be popular for this one.

I honestly don't know what to suggest, it seems that logic goes out of the window with these kind of scenarios. I suppose that you could argue that an oven, fridge or similar appliance may need to be tested before a buyer can be 100% sure that it's okay, but then what do buyers do if they pay cash on collection on other sites?

@tytherley12 I couldn't tell you how this will pan out, it's really difficult to advise whether you should let eBay make the decision to refund and then appeal (which is a risk in itself), or whether to contact your buyer and try to arrange a collection. I might be inclined to call their bluff here and let them know, via eBay messages, that you're arranging collection, and can they give you some suitable dates and times when somebody will be home and available for this in order to pick a mutually convenient one. At least then, if they escalate the return to ask eBay to step in (which they can do after 3 business days), the ball will have been firmly in their court.

Either way, you're going to lose some money here and I can fully appreciate that this is a very stressful situation. 

[tytherley12]

Do you think it’s worth me making some kind of formal complaint to EBay? Does such a thing exist?  Do you think an ombudsman would look at this case? 

[*vyolla*]

---

@tytherley12 wrote:

Do you think it’s worth me making some kind of formal complaint to EBay? Does such a thing exist?  Do you think an ombudsman would look at this case? 

---

Nope, you've no grounds for a complaint because this is how eBay works, and it's clearly outlined in their User Agreement and policy pages. 

I'd look to dealing with the matter in hand.

[w79805]

Ebay don't give a toss

You probably have 3 options.

Agree to the absurd partial refund

Pay to have a courier bring the item back (they might not even answer the door and you'll still have to pay the courier)

or do nothing and ebay will refund them in full and they will get to keep the oven

[w79805]

I just removed a listing for a furniture item so this doesn't happen to me. Will post it on a site that allows cash payments

[moonlight-rhapsody]

"Do you think it’s worth me making some kind of formal complaint to EBay? Does such a thing exist? Do you think an ombudsman would look at this case"

As a financial services provider, ebay come under the FCA (ebay's number is 925354) so you could contact the Financial Ombudsman, if necessary using the argument of "unfair contract terms".   Regulatory bodies these days are less warm towards large organisations using their muscle power against an individual consumer.

However, I believe that before the Ombudsman will look at it, you have to have formally complained to the organisation and given them the chance to rectify the matter.  Ebay must have a complaints procedure, but from what I can gather, they don't make it easy to pursue it.  However, if ebay do make it difficult to pursue a formal complaint, that in itself could be grounds to complain to the Financial Ombudsman.

IMO there is too much money at stake not to at least start a formal complaint if ebay find against you, particularly when it is blindingly obviously that the buyer knew exactly what they were getting, not only from the description but by the husband collecting it. 

Why on earth ebay would side with them is beyond me, it's quite shocking if they do and would be a salutory lesson to anybody selling items for collection on here.

[tytherley12]

Thanks. I’ve found, on the FCA, that I need to complain and address to Subrata Roy, at ecukcomplaints@ebay.com

There’s even a phone number 0800 358 3229

[suelel1968]

The irony of all this is that if the buyer had just messaged me and said they’d made a mistake,

Could you show us the message? This could show clear misuse of item not as described and Moneyback guarantee. 

[xyz307xyz]

Do keep records of conversations etc. But the case isn't decided yet. I should focus on that. Look at what ebay's policy and help pages say for item not as described for both as a buyer and as a seller.

[moonlight-rhapsody]

^ The buyer hadn't actually sent a message, the seller said "IF the buyer had messaged me".  It's a good point though - if their reason for rejecting it is that they wanted all electric, why are they willing to accept gas if the seller gives them a discount?  Could that be classed as abuse of the NAD and MBG process?

[suelel1968]

Good spot. My mistake

[moonlight-rhapsody]

"Look at what ebay's policy and help pages say for item not as described for both as a buyer and as a seller."

I've just looked at that, and I can't see that it does anything other than strengthen the seller's case, particularly "falsely claiming that an item was not as described".  I can't understand why it's not an open-and-shut case in the seller's favour.

Here's the link to the page :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/rules-policies-buyers/buying-practices-policy?id=4374

===================

Behaviours we don't allow

Demanding something not offered in the original listing

 Not allowed

• Requesting a shipping service not offered by the seller
• Requesting the seller ship to an address other than what you included in checkout
• Requesting to use a payment method not offered during checkout
• Requesting the seller hold your item so you can pay later
• Requesting a partial refund without returning the item
• Request additional items or services not included in the original listing or asking for a discount
• Finding an item on eBay and taking the sale off eBay

Making false claims

 Not allowed

• Claiming an item was not received when there is proof of delivery to the address on the Order details page
• Falsely claiming an item was not as described

[papso22]

Bizarrely a partial refund is usually only appropriate when not returning an item!

[xyz307xyz]

Yes. As I said, I would be focussing on entering this kind of info in the ebay case. Not worrying about involving the FCA; other than just keeping records of what I was doing and anything heard from ebay or the buyer, in case I needed them later.