False ‘item not described’ claim

[kjgreene93]

Hi

I have been mugged off by the buyer and lied to by every single agent I’ve spoken to.

I sold the item on November 17th

Delivered on November 24th

Buyer left positive feedback and that was that

or so I thought…

They buyer opened an ‘item not as described’ on December 24th

Buyer requested a return

"Hello I hope that you are well, I bought an iPhone 14 from you but I’m very disappointed because it doesn’t match the description, the photos come out blurry and low quality on it. I’m even more upset because this was meant to be a present for a close family member, I didn’t return it immediately because I sent it to my country for this person. On the 12th of January I will return this iPhone and I would please like a refund. I can only send it on the 12th because I have to bring the phone to England."

Key points in this this being

• Lied about camera as it was fine when I shipped it
• They shipped it to another country
• Stated they can’t return it to me until Jan 12th (well after the return time frame)

My item was accurately described and in full working order, there were no issues with the camera and that aligns with the fact they left positive feedback

My listing also stated no returns both in the description and options for return

Any damage caused would’ve been done either by the buyer or during their shipment to another country

I have spoken to numerous live chat agents since the case was opened and every single one had said to me I do not need to do anything, to not refund and the case will be closed in my favour (I have kept all transcripts)

The return was then closed in my favour - justice

or so I thought, again…

This morning, as of Jan 4th I received an email stating the buyer won an appeal and I’ve been forced into a £650 refund despite being told by every live chat agent I had spoken to that this would NOT happen

I don’t have the device back and even if I do get it back won’t be until after Jan 12th, as per the buyers original return request message

So by the time I it back, IF I even get it back, the item will be in a different condition to what I sent it because any damage done will have been done by the buyer or their during their shipment to another country and it still needs to be shipped back to England so who knows what further damage could be done to it at this point

But even so, even if the exact same device comes back and in the same condition the buyer stated they can’t get it back to me until after Jan 12th which is close to 2 months after sale - the value of the item has dropped for re sale - surely that isn’t acceptable on that point alone as per the return timeframe!?

What happens should I receive it back in completely different condition to what I sent it or even a different device altogether?

To repeat, I’ve been lied to by every eBay agent I’ve spoken to leading up to the forced refund with all stating that the return will be closed in my favour (which it was initially) no refund will be made and that I do not need to anything

I expect at the absolute bare minimum the refund be removed from my account and covered by eBay themselves due to the continuous lies and false information that’s been fed to me, which I remind I have all transcripts for!

But ideally the refund should be completely reversed and their appeal reversed as it was a false claim to begin with, they shipped it to another country and it’s still there!

I do not care for rules or t&c’s when it comes to refunds and returns on this particular case as I was told by multiple agents NOT to refund and NOT to do anything - which I have the transcripts to back up - so just followed up on what I was advised to do by everyone, yet eBay still force a refund that I was told wouldn’t happen… and as I said, still no item back!

If none of this is done and I don’t receive the device back, can I take legal action?

[*vyolla*]

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@kjgreene93 wrote:

So on the back of all this, with all the chat transcripts I have of eBay advising me the above - am I good to either appeal again or take to court?

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There isn't anyone you can take to court here, but wait and see what Katie says. You have transcripts from eBay Customer Services, so are able to prove what was said by eBay.

[magpiecorner1]

Are you sure?   I would have thought the seller could take the buyer to the small claims court.

As far as I know eBay rules don't trump UK common law, the buyer has the seller's item and the buyer hasn't been paid for it, the seller has lost both his money and his item.

Might even be worth finding out if a precedent has been set, quite possible considering the number of times buyers have been refunded and been informed they don't need to return the item.

I'd like to be a fly on the wall in mitigation on this one.

[papso22]

I think civil action would be extremely difficult if the buyer does actually reside abroad as indicated by their messages. 

[kjgreene93]

Buyer lives in England, they shipped it to to a family member who lives abroad when they received it

but stated that they can't return the phone until after Jan 12th as they have to ship it back

all just seems too convenient for them

[rjwilmsi]

Hmm, when sales involve £500+ Apple products it makes me suspicious that the buyer has opened a false claim hoping to get the item for free. Such items do seem to be a scammer magnet. But who knows, an iPhone could have a camera failure shortly after buyer receives item, so case could be legitimate.

eBay's money back guarantee doesn't cover buyers who use their own freight forwarders. However, if the buyer had the item posted to a normal UK address then that's not freight forwarding. The buyer may have later posted it on themselves, again that wouldn't void the protection. Maybe buyer took the phone with them when going abroad to visit family for Christmas (then no overseas postage involved).

The buyer has 30 days from receipt to raise a case for any faults (Item Not As Described). The buyer raised the case in time so it's a valid case.

If seller's evidence that the case is invalid is the message from the buyer saying the phone was taken abroad, I don't think that is clear evidence of use of a freight forwarder (if I purchase something from eBay then take item on holiday I wouldn't expect that to void my eBay protections in general case). Also, the buyer could later tell eBay that was a miscommunication - e.g. in a late change of plans relatives came to UK, so phone never left UK. eBay would presumably accept that update. The seller does not have independent proof of freight forwarder use.

So I think all the eBay agents have given incorrect advice - in my view there was no clear proof that the case was invalid. The seller should have accepted the case and issued a return label. The buyer would then have to sort out returning phone to UK before posting it to seller. What would have happened then, who knows.

I suspect eBay will state that the grounds for buyer's appeal were valid so it won't be overturned. If the buyer was genuine then the seller may be able to arrange return of phone with them outside of eBay, but that would be entirely dependent on buyer goodwill - no obligation under eBay rules to do that.

So seller will be asking eBay to provide a refund at eBay's cost. I think the seller will find that hard to achieve given the item value. Seller may have to try taking eBay to small claims court (if seller won't mind not being able to sell on eBay again), I suppose argument would have to be that eBay told seller one thing then another, seller relied on that information and then lost item value, but whether that is good enough to win a small claims case I've no idea.

[kjgreene93]

Quick update 

I got in touch with eBay yesterday immediately after I was forced into a refund, obviously complaining about being told that this wouldn't happen and they said they'd get back to me within 48 hours 

So went on to live chat this morning to double check it was being reviewed and I wasn't just told it to get rid of me and they took action just now

They've reversed the refund and given my funds back as they've seen the all the false information I've been fed and that it wasn't my fault

They also stated that this was the final action, so I'm currently good

But who knows if that'll actually be the case with the amount of misinformation I've been fed the last couple weeks

But as of now eBay seem to have recognised their errors...

I appreciate every one of your replies to this nonetheless, first time posting here and all helped me with useful information 

Will update if anything else happens!

[douglaspuglas]

That's good news.

Though I bet they've let the buyer keep the money and paid you out of eBay's coffers.

[kjgreene93]

Oh I almost guarantee that's the case, someone probably has a free iPhone but is what it is I guess

better than them having a free iPhone AND me being out of pocket

[kjgreene93]

Do you think I should send them a return label via messages still?

Or just leave it and hope that's it's done?

[douglaspuglas]

Leave it alone.

I'd block the buyer and report him though.

[kjgreene93]

I forgot to block and they've just requested the label again tonight...

which I think proves all eBay did was cover the refund forced on me and they got their money back

wonder if I just send a label anyway now if eBay will reverse the refund again, even if I did the item definitely wouldn't be in same condition 

presume just go ahead and ignore their message and block now - just doesn't sit right knowing they've got their hands on a free phone