EBay asking for national insurance number

[raik1performance]

Hi everyone, I recently joined for like 1 month and I start selling as a private seller , and now eBay is asking me to provide national insurance number.

"New UK digital sales reporting legislation requires sellers with 30 or more sales, or who have sales exceeding £1740 in a calendar year, to register this information"

[ett1954]

"another thing that crept in under the radar without the public being aware!" - This happened in January 2011 and was publicly announced at the time around November 2010.  It hit the newspapers at the time as it was an EU directive through the European Court of Justice after TNT brought a case to them complaining that they and other mail delivery companies had to add VAT to their charges whilst Royal Mail didn't .  The judgement by the ECJ exempted those services that were subject to price control such as 1st and 2nd class, etc.

The public, certainly those affected, were very much aware of this at the time.  If you want to blame anyone for VAT on Royal Mail services then blame TNT.

[sml192]

This is the information provided on the Gov.uk site regarding VAT on postage:

Postage

Goods or services VAT rate More information

Direct-mail postal services meeting all the conditions of VAT Notice 700/24 3.2 and 3.3	Outside the scope of VAT	VAT Notice 700/24
Postage, packing and delivery within the UK included in the sales contract but charged for separately, for example, mail order	The same rate as the goods being delivered or posted	Postage, packing and delivery within the UK charged as an optional extra is always standard-rated — VAT Notice 700/24
Public postal services provided by the Royal Mail under a universal service obligation	Exempt	Standard Royal Mail first and second class services for example
Other postal services that are not subject to a universal service obligation	Standard-rated	Supplies that are not subject to regulation

[susaturne47]

Passed me by, I m afraid and if you asked the general public if there was VAT on postage, most wouldn’t have a clue. TNT, Evri etc etc that’s free enterprise for you and another example of progress where Jo bloggs pays for it.
Kind Regards,
Sue

[susaturne47]

Yeah, I looked and what was supposed to be a simple tax on its introduction has become anything but. There’s nothing like government intervention to throw a spanner in the works.
Kind Regards,
Sue

[papso22]

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@susaturne47 wrote:
VAT on postage is not so simple as it used to be, there wasn’t any and it was exempt. However rules changed and VAT is now charged on many postage costs, not stamps for letters, but it has been added to others. In effect if you are a business you can claim that VAT back as an expense, indeed your postage costs will also be a cost to the business (cost of goods sold) and a direct expense in pursuit of your business and so affect your profit as purchases are netted off sales to arrive at your profit. Clearly non of this applies to private sellers, like me, we re not a business and not VAT registered, so postage to is is just a necessary hindrance and a partial cost to a seller as eBay charge us a percentage of this as fees on the value of sales and an postage is ultimately an expense to the buyer.
Kind Regards,
Sue

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By the way, as there are no longer private final value selling fees, there are no longer 'fees on postage'.

[pomi147]

All this will do is alienate and scare private sellers off and away from using ebay.

No one in their right mind is going to offer up their NI simply in order to clear out their loft or old possessions.

What was once an auction site open for all is and has now effectively become just another e-commerce platform.

It's scared off the private sellers and will soon just be businesses only.

[pomi147]

All that will happen here is ebay will lose custom and sellers. HMRC will fine them £100 per seller.

Also, whilst ebay get's fined by HMRC, HMRC can then if they choose go on to waste resources to try investigate the private sellers the likes of which that sold a pram, pushchair and their old furniture etc etc

This is classic case of Dumb and Dumber.

Best to let the pair of them run their race to the bottom.

[papso22]

No-one can force a seller to provide their NI number to ebay, or any other online site that requires it.  But if they don't there will be consequences,  the least of which will be the inability to use ebay to sell their stuff.

They have to weigh up the pros and cons for themselves.

[jonatjonatjonat]

"No one in their right mind is going to offer up their NI simply in order to clear out their loft or old possessions."

Quite the sweeping statement that. Evidence of private sellers still being on ebay and selling over 30 and/or £1,740 of items in the last year would suggest otherwise (or at least all that remains is private sellers not in their right mind).

[gjalp]

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@pomi147 wrote:

All this will do is alienate and scare private sellers off and away from using ebay.

No one in their right mind is going to offer up their NI simply in order to clear out their loft or old possessions.

What was once an auction site open for all is and has now effectively become just another e-commerce platform.

It's scared off the private sellers and will soon just be businesses only.

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Im obviously not in my right mind. I have given my NI to ebay on my private ID. I have a lot of things to clear out and Id like to cash them in. They are my personal items and have no tax liability (unless I sell an item for £1000s and then Id have to declare it in case of capital gains but Im unlikely to make one sale of that amount). 

Ive also done the same for my business ID and that is the only change there. I will still be doing my tax return like I have been for the last 20+ years.

[susaturne47]

Yes you’re right , private sellers selling off their own goods or those of dead relatives which are cluttering up their life will leave the platform. This rule was meant to catch business sellers proporting to be private sellers to avoid tax and all it’s doing is penalising innocent individuals.
Kind Regards,
Sue

[jckl1957]

Nobody is being penalised.

How can providing your NI number to Ebay be seen as a punishment?

[vinido]

What if a private seller, selling personal belongings without making a profit, sells a single high-value item like a phone that brings the total sale over £1,750, but the order is canceled and refunded at the buyer's request the very next day? This means the total sale ends up being well below £1,750.

eBay's system seems broken. I spoke with an advisor, and they told me that once the £1,750 limit is hit, the account is flagged, and cancellations or refunds aren't considered. (basically it's too late) To me, that's a pretty illogical and flawed system. They should do annual or even monthly reviews to account for situations like cancellations and returns before demanding these information from private members.

Also, providing the most sensitive personal data, like an insurance number, to a multinational corporation is something a lot of people aren’t comfortable with.

[papso22]

Ebay's published guidance on these reports clearly says they exclude cancelled sales from the figure used.

The advisor was wrong.

[vinido]

Do you happen to have a link to this guideline?

[jonatjonatjonat]

UK Digital Sales Reporting | ebay

For residents of the UK, eBay is legally required to report both your sales transactions and certain personal or business information to His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC). eBay will report this information should you meet either of the following thresholds within the calendar year:

• Your total sales on eBay is equal to or more than £1,740 after deducting fees and commissions or taxes
• You complete 30 or more sales transactions on eBay (cancelled transactions are not included in the calculation)

[vinido]

Thanks! It’s unbelievable that eBay’s advisor couldn’t even read their own guidelines and ended up giving me completely wrong advice and information  and I actually trusted them.

but whether they’ll re-assess my account and remove that demand is another story.

I got the email asking for my insurance number right after I sold the item. The sale was cancelled and refunded 2 days later, but the messages and emails just keep coming.

Now I have to try contacting eBay again, which is a challenge in itself since most of the new advisors don’t seem very capable or informed about these things.

[sml192]

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@vinido wrote:

Now I have to try contacting eBay again, which is a challenge in itself since most of the new advisors don’t seem very capable or informed about these things.

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I would recommend requesting a callback first thing in the morning so that you get someone from the team in Ireland who are more knowledgeable and have greater authority.  The following link works best:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/eua?id=5275&mkevt=1&mkpid

8am to 10pm on weekdays and

9am to 6pm on weekends

[vinido]

Ah,that makes sense.I'll do that,Thanks.

[papso22]

They are highly unlikely remove the demand. They just won't report your sales if you stop now.