EBay asking for national insurance number

[raik1performance]

Hi everyone, I recently joined for like 1 month and I start selling as a private seller , and now eBay is asking me to provide national insurance number.

"New UK digital sales reporting legislation requires sellers with 30 or more sales, or who have sales exceeding £1740 in a calendar year, to register this information"

[papso22]

Generally speaking people pay tax in the country in which the taxable sales are made.

Overseas students are not going to be able to comply with HMRC's or ebay's requirements for a NI number so will have a problem.

[4_bathrooms]

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@papso22 wrote:

Overseas students are not going to be able to comply with HMRC's or ebay's requirements for a NI number so will have a problem.

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As I understand it a non-domiciled student can apply for a NINO if they can prove they are looking for work or will be starting a job. Obviously having the right to work in the UK would be a prerequisite for this.  

The only other way a non-dom could comply with the requirements would be to enter their home country address during registration as they would have the requisite TIN from their home country's tax authority. However, this would result in eBay demanding a VAT registration number as soon as they created a listing for an item located in the UK.  

[dreubencr]

Yeah, I have right to work (20 hours weekly), but they ask you to apply for a NIN only if you truly are looking for work, which is not my case; I rather not lie to the government. Hopefully ebay will find a solution and release the funds since I already shipped the item...!

[4_bathrooms]

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@dreubencr wrote:

Yeah, I have right to work (20 hours weekly), but they ask you to apply for a NIN only if you truly are looking for work, which is not my case; I rather not lie to the government.

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I'm pretty sure anyone with non-dom status applying for a NINO would be required to prove they were actively looking for work or prove they had an existing bone fide job offer before one would be issued.

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@dreubencr wrote:

Hopefully ebay will find a solution and release the funds since I already shipped the item...!

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I don't believe there is a solution. eBay are obliged to withhold the funds until you provide the NINO they were legally obliged to request which of course is something you can't do. eBay's Payments Terms of Use state:

"Any hold placed on your funds will be released when the risk associated with our provision of Payment Services is reduced or eliminated."

I have no idea how long that will be in your case as eBay don't provide a timescale in the PToU.

[tobyskarma]

No idea, just ebay *bleep*py rules!

[4_bathrooms]

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@tobyskarma wrote:
No idea, just ebay *bleep*py rules!

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It isn't eBay's rules; it's the law. eBay have explained when and why they ask for NINOs from individuals on this page. These regulations are not exclusive to eBay; they apply to all digital platforms and online marketplaces that operate in the UK.

[sml192]

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@tobyskarma wrote:
No idea, just ebay *bleep*py rules!

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It is not eBay rules.  They are legally required to obtain Tax Identification Numbers for any Reportable seller, i.e. any seller that meets the thresholds set by the OECD. 

[strangelysane]

People keep saying you should be fine handing over your NI number to eBay "you do it every time when you change jobs."  However, if something goes wrong at your employer's end, you can speak to someone face to face in HR.  You can hold someone responsible.   Not so with foreign owned eBay.  You very rarely speak to a human being at the best of times, let alone someone that will take responsibility for issues.  I really don't know why HMRC would require people to bandy about their NI number when they already have it.
Furthermore, it's now laid the foundations for phishing emails purporting to be from HMRC asking for NI insurance numbers.  I had one only the other day.

[jckl1957]

Two points:

'if something goes wrong at your employer's end, you can speak to someone face to face in HR'

Not if you are working for an employment agency and being paid by an umbrella company or working in the local shop who keep your details in a folder in the staff coffee room.  In any case, if your NI details were passed on or simply accessed by another employee for dodgy purposes, being able to speak to somebody would not be particularly helpful.

'it's now laid the foundations for phishing emails purporting to be from HMRC asking for NI insurance numbers'

I have no idea why you would think that has anything to do with Ebay.

[crafty6272]

I’ve already put my number in ages ago I meant that I’d had phishing emails
supposedly from HMRC asking to resend my NI number

[strangelysane]

OK. I'll play your whataboutism situations.
Three points.

1)  "Not if you are working for an employment agency and being paid by an umbrella company or working in the local shop, who keep your details in a folder in the staff coffee room."

Employers have a duty of care to ensure employee data is securely managed, accurately stored, and protected from unauthorized access or misuse. This obligation is rooted in both legal requirements, like the Data Protection Act 2018 and GDPR. Your above scenario would be a serious breach and actionable.

2) "In any case, if your NI details were passed on or simply accessed by another employee for dodgy purposes, being able to speak to somebody would not be particularly helpful."

In the event of identity theft, being able to trace the source of the leak will make it easier to clear your name of anything your ID has been illegally used for, to prosecute bad actors, and either reinstate the integrity of your NI number or have a replacement issued.

3) 'It's now laid the foundations for phishing emails purporting to be from HMRC asking for NI insurance numbers' I have no idea why you would think that has anything to do with Ebay."

I didn't say it had anything to do with eBay - that's something you have imported.
HOWEVER, because eBay sellers have been primed to be asked to hand over their NI number, it's created fertile ground for phishing emails purporting to be from eBay. As millions of people have eBay accounts, sending out random attempts has a very good chance of luring people in.

[specialk1937]

Any private seller that registers as a Business seller is asking for trouble!  Private sellers that genuinely only sell there own possessions are exempt from any tax liability, as I was recently informed by HMRC

[jckl1957]

We could go back and forth forever - sometimes adults have to simply agree to differ.

Every seller has a choice: either, accept that Ebay has a legitimate reason for handing over your NINO and do so, or, refuse to hand it over and stop selling on the site.

Employers have a duty of care to ensure employee data is securely managed, accurately stored, and protected from unauthorized access or misuse. This obligation is rooted in both legal requirements, like the Data Protection Act 2018 and GDPR. Your above scenario would be a serious breach and actionable.

This has happened to me.  How exactly would I deal with the local shop/coffee room scenario?  (That is a rhetorical question - I doubt most people who need a job would confront their employer in those circumstances.)

In the event of identity theft, being able to trace the source of the leak will make it easier to clear your name of anything your ID has been illegally used for, to prosecute bad actors, and either reinstate the integrity of your NI number or have a replacement issued.

How, exactly, could you pinpoint or prove the source of the leak?  (Another rhetorical question - you couldn't prove how your NINO was obtained.)

It's now laid the foundations for phishing emails purporting to be from HMRC asking for NI insurance numbers'

For me, the wording ,and the fact that you have posted your opinions in an Ebay forum, suggest you believe there is a link.  Subtext: Ebay have asked for your NINO so you would be more likely to hand it out to some random stranger who emails and asks for it rather than carrying out any checks.

Just my opinions - based on a lot of lived experience and, I am happy to agree to differ.

[specialk1937]

Ebay is not my employer and I am not its employee1

[alfifletch27]

Agreed

Sent from my iPhone

[jckl1957]

I don't think anybody has suggested otherwise.

However, HMRC have instructed Ebay to pass information from any seller who passes specific thresholds.  This is part of what is required:  (Direct from gov.uk website)  https://www.gov.uk/guidance/selling-goods-or-services-on-a-digital-platform

Information you must give

Digital platform operators will ask you for certain details.

If you’re an individual seller, they’ll ask for your:

• full name
• address where you normally live
• date of birth
• tax identification number (National Insurance number if you live in the UK)

If you don't give Ebay your NINO they will most likely restrict your account and hold your funds.  There is evidence in the forums that this is already happening.

They will still pass the details of your sales (with your full name, home address and bank account details) to HMRC.  Of course, with those details HMRC will easily be able to match your NINO to you and your Ebay sales.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

not sure of the relevance of your comment.  HMRC say that online selling platforms and some other groups(ABNB for example) have to provide NINOs for their sellers.  If they do not comply then they can be fined etc etc.  I am pretty sure e bay would be quite happy not to have to go to the trouble of trying to get the numbers our of recalcitrant sellers and then when they refuse, hold on to their funds, suspend their accounts and  any other malarkey they will have to do.