Confused over needing NI number and allowances

[jrd-games]

My non-related business *completely* died in May last year but I still had a huge tax bill from the previous tax year to pay off, so resorted to selling off a lot of my prized possessions on eBay to soften the blow.

Today, I just got a notification about supplying my National Insurance Number to eBay. 

Have seen conflicting info. One thing was saying I should be paying taxes as the sales did cross the £1700 threshold, but a page on the HMRC site says I don't need to as I was selling my personal possessions below 6k. What to do here?

To be honest, the platform is now absolutely *awful* to use as a private seller so was just thinking of closing my account anyway.

[lonewolfmozes]

Or Johnny 5 as he can read super fast lol 😂🤣😂👍

[papso22]

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@lonewolfmozes wrote:

I did the online check and i got the same answer, i don't need to provide anything 2 HMRC as i haven't gone over the £6,000 and i don't buy to sell as just selling on the unwanted items i don't need anymore. so this means i don't have to give ebay my national insurance number after i got the email the other day. had a chat 2 a few people today asking 4 advice and was told better not give ebay or any other websites like ebay as they are not a bank and it is too risky 4 online scammers etc.

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It doesn't mean that at all.  Regulations mean ebay needs your NI number to go with your sales data,  those Regulations take no account of account status, what is being sold, or any previous dealings or contact with HMRC. 

Your choice whether to provide your NI number but if you don't  ebay will freeze your funds and still send the data, possibly with a red flag for non compliance. 

I don't know what checks you did online but I don't think HMRC are going to think you were just selling off unwanted personal possessions when they get your data.

[jckl1957]

Ebay have been TOLD to collect and pass on that information.

This is from the government website - link and relevant section:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/selling-goods-or-services-on-a-digital-platform

'New rules started in the UK from 1 January 2024 which mean if you sell on digital platforms, the platform operator may need to:

• collect and check specific details about you
• report details to HMRC

  Information you must give

  Digital platform operators will ask you for certain details.

  If you’re an individual seller, they’ll ask for your:

  • full name
  • address where you normally live
  • date of birth
  • tax identification number (National Insurance number if you live in the UK)'

[kath3735_wxmjn]

Love the quote at the end, sums up so many people commenting on here!  Always seems to be the pseudo private sellers that do not seem to comprehend that the rules in regard to providing NI details are not from E Bay but the government.  Pretty sure e bay and all the other online platforms would have been happier not to have to mess around providing all this additional data.  The same people also do not seem to understand that e bay and the government have different scenarios for what they decide are businesses but that they should be ensuring that they comply with both, the governments so that they have no problems with the tax they pay and e bay because it is in the T & Cs which the seller has signed up to and if e bay wanted (and we know they make too much money to do it) could shut the illegal accounts.

[alfifletch27]

Is all this side called hustles
on eBay going to go back from the very first time you started selling 5 years 10 years etc if so we are Doomed! earning a extra maybe £2000 to £3000 a year if you lucky to me it’s not worth the paperwork headache) and if you hss as have no receipts of proof ie lost to reduct of you earnings then your just selling on a big loss!

I’ll miss ebay selling
But I don’t won’t it to be a business

Sent from my iPhone

[jckl1957]

I get complaints about my quote from time to time.

But only from members who are easily fooled!

[vinylscot]

It's only a business if you make it a business.

If you're selling off your own personal collection of coins, it's not a business. You will not be liable to tax on your sales IF that is the case.

However, if you are buying coins, with the intention of selling these on, then you are trading, and that would be a business. Your earnings from that business would be subject to tax, like any other earnings.

[vintagevilarosa]

So if you are selling items that are your own that you have purchased at some point in your life and that you have already paid VAT then ebay and the tax man want you to pay more tax on items already taxed is that correct?

[ruby*ryan]

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@vintagevilarosa wrote:

So if you are selling items that are your own that you have purchased at some point in your life and that you have already paid VAT then ebay and the tax man want you to pay more tax on items already taxed is that correct?

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If you are selling your own items, that were never purchased with the intent to sell and make a profit in the future, then there should be no tax to pay.

If you are buying, making, growing or upcycling items to sell on, then you need to be registered as a business and declaring that income to HMRC.

[ett1954]

"..... millions of ebay account holders having financial information submitted at the same time is going to generate so much data that someone at HMRC is going to have the brilliant idea of using AI to deal with it." - the data will be analysed by HMRC's Connect software which was years in developing and has been successfully operating for a few years now.

Connect, as far as I am aware doesn't use AI, but consolidates information from a variety of sources which can include banks, digital platforms, employer's records, credit cards; etc. etc., and can link this to an individual through names, addresses, bank accounts, Personal Tax Identification Numbers etc.  A person would only need to be involved if a discrepancy was found which didn't tie in with HMRC's records for that person.   An actual person would then only be needed to make a decision on whether investigative proceedings were started, and at what level.

In the few years of its operation Connect has had an impressive record of identifying tax evasion and has been instrumental in recovering 'lost' tax owed to the exchequer.

[jckl1957]

No.

I certainly don't think that and I have not said that.

Ebay don't have any responsibility to collect tax.  They simply pass details of your sales to HMRC.  They are obliged to do this if you sell more than 30 items in a year or if you sell items for more than about £1700.

What HMRC do with that information will be up to them.

If you are selling your own unwanted items, generally you don't have to pay tax.

HMRC have lots of information and publish 'badges of trade' so you can decide if you think you are likely to be taxed on your online selling.

[happysmileygirl64]

What this commentator said! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[vinylscot]

You might like what that earlier commenter said, but that doesn't make him/her correct.

If you have been running a business on a private account, it is perfectly reasonable that HMRC take whatever steps necessary to recoup ALL the tax you should have been paying since you began trading. Obviously, I can't be sure if that's what you're doing, but a private account listing 280 brand new items is bound to invite suspicion from HMRC, if your details are passed to them.

[johnwash1]

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@vinylscot wrote:

You might like what that earlier commenter said, but that doesn't make him/her correct.

If you have been running a business on a private account, it is perfectly reasonable that HMRC take whatever steps necessary to recoup ALL the tax you should have been paying since you began trading. Obviously, I can't be sure if that's what you're doing, but a private account listing 280 brand new items is bound to invite suspicion from HMRC, if your details are passed to them.

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Really?  Suspicion even after looking at those brand new items (and brand new other)?

Maybe you're right with your insinuation, but if I were going to start a business I sure wouldn't go out and buy to resell those 280 items!

Let's just play this cat and mouse game the easy way.  Sit back, purr gently, wait for the mouse that comes along with 11,000 brand new items that they evidently have in bulk (multiple sales over and over of these same items) and then pounce.  You won't have to wait long, and your blood pressure will thank you.

[vinylscot]

I agree with you - there are far bigger fish to fry.

However, while I wouldn't have bought these 280 items to re-sell, equally I don't really see a situation where I would have bought these particular 280 items at all for any reason other than to re-sell.

And the poster did enter the conversation with an erroneous (hopeful) assumption, and is therefore worthy of a response.

[johnwash1]

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@vinylscot wrote:

I agree with you - there are far bigger fish to fry.

However, while I wouldn't have bought these 280 items to re-sell, equally I don't really see a situation where I would have bought these particular 280 items at all for any reason other than to re-sell.

...

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In which case I wonder why anybody else would buy them either! 🙂  But I've largely given up trying to puzzle out motivation.  Sometimes I'm on my way to the black bin and I catch myself feeling guilty, will only take a few minutes to put this on ebay... and subsequently wonder what drugs the buyer was on when they clicked 'buy'!

Still, I have to say that @vinylscot you're one of the more moderate posters about sellers who are suspect.

The ones who go really ballistic over this topic could instead try first PM'ing their targets and attempt a rational conversation, which might be more productive, and would certainly save the rest of us being alienated.

[lonewolfmozes]

Yes it is my choice as what i read the other day some data from ebay has been leaked onto the black market and after reading that well it has got me thinking they have your name address etc but i will not give my NI to make it more easy for scammers 2 get your personal info, sod that 2 risky but anyway it is up to you and i say NO.

[papso22]

If you are not going to give them your NI number you had better remove your listings.  

[keagnes2012]

Yes it is awful, I’m closing mine after 13years and so is my son .Can’t be bothered with all this.

[33linden]

Thanks, I'm not mistaken.