Confused over needing NI number and allowances

[jrd-games]

My non-related business *completely* died in May last year but I still had a huge tax bill from the previous tax year to pay off, so resorted to selling off a lot of my prized possessions on eBay to soften the blow.

Today, I just got a notification about supplying my National Insurance Number to eBay. 

Have seen conflicting info. One thing was saying I should be paying taxes as the sales did cross the £1700 threshold, but a page on the HMRC site says I don't need to as I was selling my personal possessions below 6k. What to do here?

To be honest, the platform is now absolutely *awful* to use as a private seller so was just thinking of closing my account anyway.

[ukbanditaddicts]

What dis you do in the end? Did you provide your NI number?

[ukbanditaddicts]

So what if you are selling personal goods, you've reached the threshold of ebay but not the 6000 hmrc say online. And you have no more items to sell. Would it be wrong not to provide your NI number and just keep using ebay to purchase items?

[lucy_farmer]

'....but not the 6000 hmrc say online.....'

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The '6000 HMRC say online' is to do with Capital Gains Tax. Nothing to do with trading allowances etc. And if you're only selling personal goods, trading  allowances don't have anything to do with you either.

(The CG Tax  happens when you sell a single personal  item [or a collection of items like a stamp collection or something] for over 6 thousand pounds.

If you've reached the 30 items/£1700 ebay limit (after which your details go to HMRC) then you stop selling, you shouldn't be asked to give in your NINO.

If you've gone over your ebay limit and don't give your NINO : ebay may hold on to any money you have in your ebay account to make you give in your number.

If there's no money in there, ebay haven't got much of a hold over you. And I can't imagine them stopping anybody buying something on ebay, NINO given or not!

[papso22]

I guess they might do one of the indefinite selling restrictions, like they do for other reasons. 

[sml192]

---

@lucy_farmer wrote:

If you've reached the 30 items/£1700 ebay limit (after which your details go to HMRC) then you stop selling, you shouldn't be asked to give in your NINO.

---

It is once either of the thresholds is reached that eBay is required to report the sales, not when they are exceeded. 

[alfifletch27]

Have you !

Sent from my iPhone

[kath3735_wxmjn]

I have no feelings of alienation.  I am a private buyer but can understand why some business sellers are not happy about the pseudo private sellers and the fact that e bay do nothing about them.  Would help matters if e bay did at least start taking action against those clearly selling thousands of items.    The thing is though that so many of those coming on here complaining about all the new rules are the pseudo buyers and that i should imagine, rankles even more!   So far the new system has had no negative impact on me, so i have to wait a while for payment (so far only 1 out of the 22 have not been marked delivered) and the payouts have happened when they said they would (something i must admit i was a bit dubious about happening).  Made more sales so far since this started than during the same period last year (of course i realise that depends on what you sell).   SD is another matter for me, i will be going then.   By the way it is pretty obvious from a lot of these threads that you cannot be rational with some people.   

[johnwash1]

@kath3735_wxmjn 

I can understand it too.  They should take out their frustration by hammering at ebay, not by disrupting thread after thread after thread.  I'm glad you're not put off by them.  I'm sure many of us are though.

[cassidy_r_private]

As a holder of both types of account, I'm not really bothered if people decide to trade illegally by trading on a private account, negating the need to accept returns or display a trading address. That's on them. I wouldn't sleep well at night.

What does bother me is the business sellers who use such tactics to hide from the benefits people. There will be many 1000s of them. Many will be ensnared due to the need for an NI number and do you know what?......nothing will happen to them because our Court and Justice systems are overwhelmed.

[margaret9024]

I telephoned HMRC to aks for clarification.  The lady I spoke to didn't know anything about this.  She contacted the National Insurance department who also did not know anything about this.  She then directed me to a HMRC page on personal selling which stated that anything up to £6,000 for personal items is tax exempt.  Please see link below

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-if-you-need-to-tell-hmrc-about-your-income-from-online-platforms#:....

So why then are eBay demanding to know my NHS number.  All my items are personal items I want to get rid of because of downsizing our house.  They do not come anywhere near £6,000. in value  Will the Inland Revenue tax me on anything I have sold regardless of whether it is from personal items or not and how will they know which is which.    Also eBay are listing items which have sold during a year January to December and not a tax year 06 April to 05 April.   My NHS number is personal to me.  I do not want to give it to a company.  They already know my bank details.  This makes me feel very uneasy  Unless I can get some reassurance from HMRC then I suppose it is goodbye eBay.  I will try call HMRC again although it's like winning the lottery getting someone to answer the phone 

[jckl1957]

If you told HMRC that Ebay had asked for your NHS number, I am not surprised they were confused.

You are required to give Ebay your National Insurance Number.

This is from the link that you added to your post:

Information collected by online platforms

If you sell on digital platforms, the platform operator may need to:

• collect and check specific details about you
• report details to us

  Find out more about selling goods or services on a digital platform.

  If you click on the link at the bottom, you would discover this:

  Information you must give

  Digital platform operators will ask you for certain details.

  If you’re an individual seller, they’ll ask for your:

  • full name
  • address where you normally live
  • date of birth
  • tax identification number (National Insurance number if you live in the UK)

[lellypoos]

Hi there 👋

I personally think that there's gunna be private sellers (such as ourselves) leaving Ebay in droves with all the different changes that they have and are bringing in . . . it's getting absolutely ridiculous and it's not fun anymore trying to sell my un-wanted stuff 😢 Such a shame ! 

[bagsy1]

Hi

Thank you for all your information messages . Having collected items for over 60 years I have been selling  and buying items because I am I collector and always will be . As most of my items are a lower value than 10 plus years ago (antique ) I am selling at a loss but  at advanced years need the monat

Thanks again for your information ,it has helped

Tom

s 

[mrood786]

yo yo yo

I too got this email asking for my NI number

So if im selling my £6000 computer set up, to which I paid Tax and VAT on it when I purchased the item, now if I sell this for £6000 that mean Ive hit my limit!

As a non business seller if I then sell a pair of shoes a mobile phone a tv I then have to pay capital gains?

RIP OFF BRITIAN, government are greedy and snuffing the life out of normal working folk with these new taxes, we have one of the worst taxation and stealth charges policy's on the planet and they want more money on top of the tons of charges regular working folk pay, its a tragedy and the UK will only get WORSE

Now people will open 10 eBay accounts or find ways to avoid this government robbery on the normal people.

[papso22]

You really don't understand how tax works do you!  

There are no new taxes for a start.

[lellypoos]

Spot on ! Liebour make me sick 🤬

Sent from Outlook for Android<>

[alfifletch27]

Agree
Don’t like handing over private information

EBay & the government should have worked out a different solution

Something like eBay take their money charge government tax !

And eBay send the collected tax to government something like that !

Otherwise end of the tax year etc we have a headache of proving lost of sales packaging costs etc etc and filling forms out

And I think the going over the threshold should be at least £15.000 sounds a lot roughly £300 per week that’s if your busy on eBay but on that figure cost of buying stuff say and reselling with loses and costs your lucky to clear profit of £80/ £100 a week with hours of wrapping and dealing with customers and 70% of stuff say you bought to resell you sell back at a loss most times that’s why to me it was a hobby not a business setting in you own home selling for peanut with all the dealings of sorting out postages and customer’s complaints I never minded that but now you’re have to deal with tax returns etc no way not worth it it’s not like you got a business unit and you’re shipping out in bulk this country doesn’t what you to have a little extra
Iam thinking of leaving eBay I’ll miss it but I don’t won’t to sell all year say £6000 worth of items that cost me say £3500 / £4000 / and get taxed on £2000 / and trying to prove loses envelopes tapes time going to post office the list goes on usages of your phone £2000 can easily go down to £1200 profit and then end of all that you have to fill out a headache tax return etc) cannot see it’s worth doing)

Sent from my iPhone

[lucy_farmer]

Alfi, I don't mean to be rude but that was a bit of a word salad.......punctuation exists for a reason. sorry  🙁

And the only clear information to be taken from your post is that you buy to sell.

This means you should be registered as a business regardless of whether or not you call it a hobby.

Again, sorry. 🙁 but there's no real way around that one.

[alfifletch27]

Ok understand good luck

Sent from my iPhone

[papso22]

You are the one that needs the luck when HMRC contacts you!

If you should have been registered for self assessment and were not, then HMRC will impose penalties.