Buyer Claimed Empty Box - eBay promised me a refund then said actually no.

[retirementready]

Hello,

I am absolutely astounded by eBay's lack of ownership over this case.

I will try to be brief and concise:

5/12 Sold Macbook Pro

6/12 Macbook Pro Delivered

6/12 Buyer Claimed Box was empty.

6/12 Immediately replied to case supplying photos prior to despatch of item on weight scale, packaging on scale, box weights etc and confirmation of Post Office weight when posted.  I also rang eBay to confirm receipt of the above and seek advice.  I was promised I had done everything required to be protected.

9/12 After no reply from the buyer I asked it to be escalated to a case.

Throughout the case, I checked in multiple times to see what was happening, throughout, I was told eBay has my back and I am protected and not to worry.  I also asked if the buyer had sent anything in to prove their claim.  I was repeatedly told no - which to me is odd when they are arguing the toss over a £2000 item and they, unlike me, are not absolutely chomping at the bit and providing everything to substantiate their claim ASAP.

20/12  Case closed in Buyers Favour stating: Documentation from Law Enforcement Shows the box was empty.  I guess a police officer must have been stood next to them when they opened it.

20/12 Appeal submitted and I called eBay to be told by 2 x separate operators my appeal has been successful and I will be granted a full refund.

22/12 Rang to chase refund and was told it needs to be signed off by a supervisor which hasn't happened. 

23/12 Rang to chase when I would get my refund and was told actually I might not get it.

26/12 Told my appeal has bene rejected and to contact Royal Mail.  I have and they have said because the item was signed for and not rejected there isn't anything they can do.

26/12 I also got a reply from the buyer for the first time and all they sent me was a box on a weighing scale showing it was less than I sent.  I am guessing this is the evidence has refunded the customer on but I do not understand how I am not protected here or how eBay can just abut turn on my refund.  

I have spoken to their Customer Service Manager and he said 'it isn't policy so dispute you have been told by several people you will be getting your refund they were wrong' so I am basically am eBay training exercise.

I am £2000 out of pocket, I believe the buyer has the item and eBay has absolutely shafted me.  Does anyone have any advice or any similar experience they can help me with to recoup my money?  Needless to say, our family Christmas was pretty much cancelled as this was our funds for it.

Thank you.

[tressygirl]

That is certainly too large  sum just to wash your hands off with the bizarre closing your case in the buyer's favour.

I personally,  would seek legal advice how to proceed here.

@retirementready 

[retirementready]

I have requested to see what the buyer has sent to them but apparently they cannot share.  

The delivery photos match my pre despatch photos perfectly and especially after being told repeatedly I will receive my refund I am beside myself eBay has just now said our staff were wrong and shouldn't have said that.

I also think it is odd the buyer didn't respond to the case initially when they were allegedly out of pocket for £2000.  

What's also galling is they start every conversation with 'Thank you for 19 years on eBay'... clearly eBay has no care whatsoever for their sellers if even after 19 years with a very good record they can not protect me.

[4_bathrooms]

Did you record the serial number of the Macbook? Also, is it still registered to an Apple/iCloud account that you can report it stolen via?

Anyway...your only hope of receiving any recourse via eBay is to do the following:

1. File a report with Action Fraud. They will provide you with a reference number and possibly a PDF copy of your report.
2. The eBay case should have an option to appeal eBay's decision. You need to click on this and in your appeal you need to provide the reference number from Action Fraud and a upload the PDF report from AF if they gave you one.

[myriad*seller]

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@retirementready wrote:

I have requested to see what the buyer has sent to them but apparently they cannot share.  

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Probably an Action Fraud reference number showing they reported the item as stolen in transit. 

Action Fraud won't investigate (they  just take crime details) so the buyer thinks they are safe from any investigation 

You should have  made your own Action Fraud report and submitted the reference number as part of your appeal. Sadly you can't appeal again. 

[retirementready]

Hello all, thanks for replying.  

Sorry I forgot to add, I reported it to Action Fraud immediately on the 6th and submitted the reference to eBay.

[retirementready]

I have the serial number yes but it was brand new on box so it wasn't registered so there is no way to track/report it that I know of.

[retirementready]

I did submit this along with the case but I feel as though eBay didn't actually look at anything I actually submitted.

[4_bathrooms]

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@retirementready wrote:

Hello all, thanks for replying.  

Sorry I forgot to add, I reported it to Action Fraud immediately on the 6th and submitted the reference to eBay.

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What sort of case did the buyer open? Was it an "item not received" case or an "item not as described" case?

[game_raid]

Sadly the problem started here :

9/12 After no reply from the buyer I asked it to be escalated to a case.

The process is let the case close and then appeal if the buyer has requested eBay to step in, then submit all your evidence including the action fraud claim number in the appeal, when we have had issues we have always been told to let eBay close the case and appeal.

You never know the buyer may have got cold feet and not even requested eBay to step in, we have had this several times, the case would have closed after 21 days of no activity i think it is.

I know it doesn't seem right but this is what we have always been told by the appeals team.

[retirementready]

They selected "Doesn't match description or photos"

[myriad*seller]

Sellers should NEVER escalate a case as that normally means you lose the case

If you had let eBay step in when the buyer escalated the outcome might have been different 

[retirementready]

I thought if I hadn't escalated it eBay would have just refunded the buyer as they were not replying to the request.

[retirementready]

This seems insane though. How would anyone navigating this for the first time with an emotional response as well due to the value know to just ignore and do nothing.

[game_raid]

There should more information out there for sellers when this happens and how to handle it, a natural response is to ask eBay to step in themselves to get their money back thinking they have everything they need to win the case, It's one of the issues sadly that comes with experience.

It is also a well known tactic by scammers that do this, they open a case and probably don't even log in until the date they can escalate it to eBay to get a refund, hence the radio silence which prompted you to take action.

CS have let you down here, they should have told you to let the case close and then appeal when the buyer escalates.

[4_bathrooms]

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@retirementready wrote:

They selected "Doesn't match description or photos"

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That's an "item not as described" (INAD) case.

Return cases are automated; there is no human involvement by eBay. When a buyer opens an INAD case the seller must issue a return label by the third day following the date the case was opened. If the seller does not issue a return label and either the buyer or the seller escalates the case the automated process will close the case in the buyer's favour (as no return label was issued) with a refund being issued to the buyer at the seller's expense.

Issuing a return label might sound daft as the buyer is obviously going to return an empty box but once the return tracking shows the return has been delivered (or attempted to be delivered) a link appears in the case that states "Report a problem". Note this is not the link that states "Ask eBay to step in" - it specifically states "Report a problem". When the seller clicks that link they need to choose an option for reporting a problem; i.e. "Returned a different item" or whatever the best option is. This stops the automated return process in it's tracks by closing it and opening a new case that a human at eBay will take a look at. It is during this report that the reference number and report from Action Fraud needs to be supplied to eBay.

Your only real option now is to appeal eBay's decision and supply the reference number and report from Action Fraud again. Hopefully eBay will reimburse you after reviewing your appeal but if they don't you will need to obtain a response from eBay that clearly states whatever decision they end up making is their "final decision".

[myriad*seller]

How does OP appeal a second time?

I thought only one appeal is allowed, and that has already passed 

[myriad*seller]

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@retirementready wrote:

This seems insane though. How would anyone navigating this for the first time with an emotional response as well due to the value know to just ignore and do nothing.

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Did you send a pre-paid return label to the buyer within the 3 day deadline?

[4_bathrooms]

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@myriad*seller wrote:

How does OP appeal a second time?

I thought only one appeal is allowed, and that has already passed 

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The OP needs to check the wording of the decision they have received which should have been given in writing (i.e. not just given via a telephone call). If it specifically states eBay has made a "final decision" the OP can take the matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service. If the wording of eBay's decision doesn't specifically state it is their "final decision" the OP should continue to appeal until they obtain one; the last message should state what the OP's options are if it is not already a final decision.

[retirementready]

This is the wording from my first Appeal denial: 

After reviewing this case, we decided to keep the original outcome. We weren't able to grant your appeal because we determined the original decision was correct.

You won't receive a refund for this case.