Auctions exempt from being classed as trading?

[t32997]

I've not seen anyone question this yet on here: 

Are auctions exempt from being classed as trading for private sellers?

Originally it was the only way things were sold on eBay so I think it should be exempt and you can't claim someone is selling with the intention to make a profit if it starts for less than they paid but makes more.

You have no control over an auction and you can't predict the future.

[papso22]

No they are not.  You can trade using auctions as you can trade with buy it nows.

Businesses and private sellers use both, the method of selling does not impact whether you are trading or not.

[thecrowmanuk]

Trading is nothing to do with the sale price.

It is whether you are buying to resell, or making items with the intention of selling.

If any of the above is true, then yes it is trading.

If you are selling your own private items, then no.

[t32997]

Good god! Will this country not allow us any fun whatsoever?

What next? No one allowed to play any games if you want to win.

They should rename this country Looserville. It makes me sick!

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Oh for goodness sake.

You literally have zero understanding of what trading is.

Trading, is quite simply buying something that you intend to sell at a profit.

That's it, not complicated at all.

How you sell an item is completely immaterial to this and always has been.

So buy it now, auction, across the counter, really doesn't matter.

So if you are getting rid of your own items then you are not trading.

If you are buying something with the intention of selling it, you are!

This country has not made any change to this in a long time, so I have no idea where you thought the fun was in the first place.

[t32997]

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@therenewalworkshopltd wrote:

Oh for goodness sake.

You literally have zero understanding of what trading is.

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And yet all these people expect private sellers to know when they've done summink wrong?!

How can anyone know how much something's gonna make in auction? They can't if you say "Trading, is quite simply buying something that you intend to sell at a profit."

[papso22]

It doesn't matter how much it makes if it is just an unwanted personal possession that was not bought with the intention of selling, and doesn't sell for more than £6,000.

If you want chapter and verse, the gov.uk site will give you what you need, but you already know that.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

And yet all these people expect private sellers to know when they've done summink wrong?!

Yet, if you speed and the police catch you, do you think that they will say ok, you didn't know?

If you don't know, you have a responsibility to find out.  It's not up to others to tell you!

As to your second sentence, understand what I wrote, it gives you the answer!

The important word is "intend"  If you can't understand that, they need to go away and learn a bit more.  It cannot be made any simpler.

[t32997]

Hmm, still a bit confusing if auctions are definitely classed as trading or not. Maybe it's classed as gambling? Who really knows what goes on in the mind when someone buys something? Or if they can fully remember, even 10 seconds later, let alone a year.

[plpmr]

forget about 'auctions' the operative word is selling.

[t32997]

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@therenewalworkshopltd wrote:

And yet all these people expect private sellers to know when they've done summink wrong?!

Yet, if you speed and the police catch you, do you think that they will say ok, you didn't know?

If you don't know, you have a responsibility to find out.  It's not up to others to tell you!

As to your second sentence, understand what I wrote, it gives you the answer!

The important word is "intend"  If you can't understand that, they need to go away and learn a bit more.  It cannot be made any simpler.

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The mind police will catch us all for our internal intentions at the point of sale 😂 pull the other one!

[*vyolla*]

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@t32997 wrote:

Hmm, still a bit confusing if auctions are definitely classed as trading or not. Maybe it's classed as gambling? Who really knows what goes on in the mind when someone buys something? Or if they can fully remember, even 10 seconds later, let alone a year.

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Maybe contact Christies or Bonhams and ask them if they think that they may not be trading after all?

Seriously, there are far too many new eBay IDs appearing here in Seller Central at the moment just to raise daft issues. It's really not fair on those who come here with serious issues to discuss or who are genuinely worried about something. 

[t32997]

Auction houses like Christies or Bonhams are the same as eBay, they just take their money for fees. They're not traders, they don't own the items in the auctions obviously.

[t32997]

What about auction buyers? If they win an auction they have no knowledge of the end price until the auction is over so they're intentions are technically unknown.

[vinylscot]

Enough! This guy is just causing a nuisance. Don't give him the satisfaction of engaging with him.

[plpmr]

simply a WUT.

[magpiecorner1]

Private sellers aren't trading, they are not making profit and losses.  All they are doing by selling an item is realising an asset. 

Assets for private individuals are chattels and come under the rules of Capital Gains Tax.  When a seller sells an item for more than they paid for it, or for more than is was worth at set period in time in some cases, or for more than the value of the item at probate if it was inherited, the CGT rules apply.

Basically only applies to individual items (or pairs, sets in a some cases) where the amount realised - after buying costs AND selling costs are deducted - is greater than £6000.  Tax is then due, there is a £3000 yearly allowance (at the moment) and the amount paid depends on the tax position of the seller, higher tax payers pay more.

CGT applies to property as well as chattels, the rules are slightly different.  There are exemptions, basically any asset which has a limited life of about 50 years, though a 1930s car and a 1915 Rolex trench watch are both exempt, as is an 18th century clock, thus exemptions don't have exact rules but generally if it has moving parts it is exempt ! 

So,  if you popped along to Sotherby's with your lalique enamel necklace, a Patek Philippe Grandsmaster and a Ferrari Dino you would have to pay tax on the few thousands you got for the necklace, not a penny in tax on millions the watch would make and not a penny in tax on the half million the car would make!

Auctions, as you see, are not exempt from tax - but it depends what you are selling at auction!