A Question about PAT Testing !

[addmhat.18]

As part of my research of becoming a business seller one day here i have been searching about different topics , rules and laws with one of them being about PAT Testing.

currently the research i did says they are no laws regrading (i guess) sellers to do a PAT Test so i ask you all now.

even if its not against the law if you wanted to sell a 2rd hand console , dvd player , tv , phone , ipad , usb stick , gaming laptop , pc and more should you get PAT Tested or as long as you test it yourself (playing games , making sure it turns on/off , making phone calls and more) you should be able to list and sell it.

any info will help alot and i should say this about resellers only.

thank you

[nigel_paul_wright7557]

Its more important if you are a business seller and someone gets hurt or killed using an item you sold.

[gt_preloved · Accepted solution]

If you are a reseller, you are a business. The law states that all businesses that sell 2nd hand electrical goods must ensure that the goods meet legal safety requirements.

Additionally,  if you sell unsafe goods, and the goods cause injury or damage, you may have to pay compensation.

So, if you sell an electrical item and it causes injury or damage to the buyer - how are you going to protect yourself from being sued? In the unlikely event you're investigated by Trading Standards or similar, how are you going to demonstrate that you are making sure the electical items you are selling are safe?

Whilst there is no law that states 2nd hand electricals must have an electrical safety sticker on them, conducting an Electrical Equipment Test (EET - which replaces the former PAT) is a good way to demonstrate you have made sure (as far as reasonable) that the electrical item being sold is safe and compliant. 

Most resellers I see on eBay offer no explanation of the tests they carry out on electricals sold, and the vast majority do not appear to attach EET labels to their items. eBay is awash with dangerous electricals which can easily cause injury or death of the purchasor but of course the vast majority of electrical sales I'm sure are entirely uneventful. 

It's relatively inexpensive to get yourself a PAT tester and training in it's use and doing so should buy both your and your customers a lot of piece of mind. 

Your business insurance provider can probably also offer you some guidance on this topic. 

[addmhat.18]

First thank you for your comment and secondly financially wise is it better to take a course or hire someone to test out the items as I may have seen that it's maybe cheaper to hire someone then to train & buy a PAT (or EET) tester machine ? 

[gt_preloved]

It depends on how many electrical items you're likely to be selling. 

There are plenty of Pat testing courses available some from as little as just £12 although I'd let you be the judge of how good they might be!

The cost of any course and the tester are legitimate business expenses and pat testers typically hold their value well on the 2nd hand market so buying a 2nd hand one and then Reselling it in the future if you're done with it probably won't cost you that much money..

If you take a reasonable course and get the necessary equipment, you can always set up a side line in testing equipment for others!

On the flip side, if you can find a local competent person with a tester, the cost to actually test a single item probably wouldn't be that much, particularly if it was a semi regular setup. 

[addmhat.18]

in your opinion what would be a reasonable course to take and does pat testing apply to video games & dvds (not the consoles just the game or film itself / disc) ?

[gt_preloved]

You only need to test mains powered electronic devices. Low voltage or battery operated devices don't apply. Video games, discs, dvds etc all dont need testing.

As we're talking about electrical safety, it would be inappropriate for me to comment on the suitability of particular courses but you just need to be able to demonstrate competence. 

At a minimum, I'd get yourself a copy of the "5th Edition of the IET Code of Practice for In-Service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment book" (about £40 on Amazon). If you read and understand it all, you might decide you don't need a course. Any course you do decide to take should insist you buy the book at a minimum, I'd be wary of any that say you don't.

Don't be put off if it seems daunting - it really isn't rocket science. Buy asking the question and considering electrical safety as a businesses seller you're already going down a better track than many others! 

[addmhat.18]

So if I just buy the book you said and if I understand the book right then the next step would be to buy the pat testing machine. 

would I need anything else as I am quite willing to learn (even if it takes a while) 

[bungalowbill*1961]

Interesting comment. The auctioneers in my local town always used  to require all electrical goods to be PAT tested at the vendor's expense (it used to be £3.50 per item) but that requirement was dropped about two years ago because they discovered there was no legal requirement for it.  

[gt_preloved]

---

@addmhat.18 wrote:

So if I just buy the book you said and if I understand the book right then the next step would be to buy the pat testing machine. 

---

The book's a great place to start and whilst it's relatively expensive (for a book), if you decide testing's not for you, you'll get most of that back selling it 2nd hand.

If you don't feel confident in what's needed and in your ability to demonstrate 'competence' having read the book then a course would be worth investigating. They'll only cover material that's in the book already, but should be able to provide practical guidance on how to put it into practice. 

If you're happy having read the book and potentially taken a course, then you can buy a PAT testing machine. 

The only other things you'll need are some pass/fail stickers and a book or app to keep records of your testing. If you're setting up as a business for the first time, I'd personally also recommend looking into business insurance covering personal and product liability too. It's surprisingly inexpensive and buys a lot of peace of mind.

[gt_preloved]

This is a hot topic at the auctions by me. The legislation doesn't apply to non-business sellers, so individuals selling their own personal stuff through ebay or other auction are exempt. 

Whether the auction house or platform has some liability is a much greyer area. The auctions by me have gotten around the problem by sticking 'Sold as Scrap' on all electrical items and displaying large disclaimers that state any electrical items are sold for parts only.

That is a potential legitimate strategy for businesses selling electricals on eBay too.. If items are listed a for 'Parts or not working' - they wouldn't need to be tested for safety.

[maggie44d]

I do PAT testing as part of my job. Most of the stuff you descirbe as wanting to sell will be double insulated, (the symbol for an item that is double insulated is a square within a square), so is particularly safe. Check all cables for cuts etc and the plug, (most of them are moulded on these days). If its power rating is under 750 Watts it should have a 3 Amp fuse  if over that it should be a 13 Amp fuse. Check the stuff actually works and you should be OK. 

Most gardening power tools are double insulated but you really need to check the cables on these as they are easily damaged, and insulation tape over a cut or to join wires is a big no no on these or any other electrical equipment.

If your going to sell 2nd hand/used stuff like kettles, irons, microwaves and the like, especially if they have a metal component to the outer case it's better to get them PAT tested. Basically anything that isn't double insulated. 

I sell privately on another account and occasionaly sell the odd bit of electrical gear. If I can be bothered, I take it in to work and test it there. The only reason I do it.... it looks good on the description that it has been PAT tested.

Many years ago during a period of unemployment the job centre tried to get me to do PAT testing, ( I was an electrician at the time). They gave me this CD which had all the information current at the time which had a test at the end. You could take this test numerous times till you passed and then printed off your own certificate!!!  That really got my back up as an electrician by trade, that any idiot could come along, do a test until they passed it and could set up as a PAT tester. I've met a few over the years and ask them if they know what Ohms Law is. Just in case they do know I'll then ask them if they know what the formula for a tuned resonant circuit is. (evil grin).

[maggie44d]

Forgot to add, if you do buy a PAT testing machine it has to be calibrated every year, so check that it has been calibrated and has the sticker on it, before buying a 2nd hand one.