Buyer saying packaged has been tampered by the courier and item is missing

[tfmgtron]

So I've recently sold a watch and a buyer saying the box has been opened and tampered. He's emailed me and sent pictures of the package opened. 

I've responded  but I can't do anything to look into further or a file or raise the issue to royal mail. As I'm currently on holiday which I've told the the buyer who has opened a case (which is now left eBay to sort) as I did simple delivery I can't respond. 

However I do believe this is a scam as I know the package was packed with the item and I've taken pictures of the item.

The proof of delivery although blurry does not look like it's been tampered with as the images sent looks like it's been ripped.

Has anyone been able to deal with this issue and how to approach it ?

Is there anyway to speak to eBay agent as in a actual person ?

[jckl1957]

What reason did the buyer give for opening the case?

I assume they have started a return case through Ebay.

They have to choose a reason from the list Ebay offer.  How you need to respond will depend on which specific reason they have chosen.

[tressygirl]

If you used Simple Delivery and the buyer opens a case for item received damaged in transit,  the eBay will refund the buyer and you'll get to keep the payout.

Do not discount the findings of this buyer too readily to being untrue.  Packaging around items do get ripped in the post. 

I purchased a boxed item once, the corner of the box had torn through the packaging,  only saved ( box damaged) with my  diligent postie placing it into another plastic bag, so it would not completely disappear out of the torn packaging.

Some items are not handled with kid gloves,  no matter which postal service / courier is used ! 🙄

@tfmgtron 

[tfmgtron]

@tressygirl thank you for the response unfortunately the buyer opened the Case as they haven’t received their item ? So I don't know if this will be the case as the courier has delivered the item.

As apparently he's received the item and was sent a empty box.

[tfmgtron]

The courier apparently opened the taken the watch, I was contacted yesterday but as I'm on holiday on Asia there not a lot I can do other than put a case to the courier.

They have raised the case as item not received, unfortunately I can't respond to the case as it's stuck on eBay to look into as there system thinks it's not been delivered (it has though as I have proof from royal mail).

I've done some reading but I have this feeling it's a modern day scam and I'm out of a watch and a sale and may have to recover cost through a claim on royal mail.

I do have pictures of the item packaged before being sent but not the item packaged in the box.

[tressygirl]

Your buyer has opened the wrong case.

If they opened one for item not received, and tracking entered shows delivery,  the case will close in your favour.  No matter the correct item was not received , an item was received,  albeit an empty box.

They can though,  within a 30 day period open another case for item not as described....Item Not Matching Description or Photos,  this you would need to refund, same would follow,  if they opened a charge back with their payment provider.

It really just depends if they know the rules,  and how they wish to continue here.

@tfmgtron 

[jckl1957]

Make sure you have added the tracking to the case.

If tracking hasn't been added or doesn't show delivery, the buyer will be refunded.

I seriously doubt this is a scam.

Buyers who know their way around the Ebay system would not open an 'item not received' case for a tracked item as they would not be able to win such a case.

If the tracking shows delivery, Ebay close the case without refunding the buyer.

[tfmgtron]

Thanks for the response, it's really helpful.

I have advised the buyer yesterday that I need all images (which they did comply and send ) and I have informed them I am away on annual leave, and would need to raise this to royal mail as if the package has been tampered with.

But the buyer proceed today to escalate this to eBay to raise a case instead.

[tfmgtron]

Thank you for the response, with it being simple delivery there is tracking and proof from royal mail taking a picture of the item being handed to the buyer.

Thank you I find it reassuring on what you wrote that is probably not a scam, as I'm not back in the UK until next weekend to begin follow with royal mail on what happened to the package and raise a claim.

[papso22]

If you used simple delivery you have no contract with the courier and can't claim against them.

Ebay will handle the item not received case and you won't have to refund.

The risk to you comes after that if the buyer opens an item not as described case for any reason other than 'arrived damaged', or does a chargeback.

You will be home by then.

[tressygirl]

@tfmgtron I've done some reading but I have this feeling it's a modern day scam and I'm out of a watch and a sale and may have to recover cost through a claim on royal mail.

I do have pictures of the item packaged before being sent but not the item packaged in the box.

I could bet my last Rolo that this is Not a scam.

If it was , the buyer would not have opened the wrong case, the one they've opened will not close in their favour. No refund fir them there.

There are millions of boxed items being sent around the UK at this time of year, all very nondescript boxed, brown paper no doubt,  if you're blaming the postie, then to open that one item of value, is a near to impossible as you can get.

Truly, no matter how well you think you have packaged the item, they can get damaged in transit  being thrown around with not too much care, packaging can be torn it can take only one corner of a boxed item to then rip the packaging further.

No scam here.

@tfmgtron 

[tfmgtron]

Thanks appreciate the response and it's reassuring.

Is there anything I can do with the courier though ? As if the package has been tampered would this not be mail fraud ? 

[papso22]

You have no evidence of mail fraud.  I don't see that you can do anything.

[tfmgtron]

But the buyer has sent image of the box being empty though ? I do have pics of the box being packaged up just not the item in the box.

As much as this is annoying I rather not my buyer lose out on a item nor myself losing out on a sale made and also the item sold

[tfmgtron]

Thanks for the response,  reading another response and yours made me feel comfortable this isn't a scam.

Well the item I packaged I know it was packaged and the buyer sent me pics of a empty box with there item missing ? So either the postie has done something or the buyer is lying (doubt it now ). So is this a lost cause to raise to the postie ? 

As I personally don't want one of my buyer to lose a item in transit (in this case recieving a empty box) to maybe now myself losing money and a watch (if another case is raised) 

I rather try and reach a position we all get what we want.

Sorry for the rant, first time I've had this issue.

[jckl1957]

To ensure a satisfactory conclusion for you and your buyer they should open a return stating their purchase arrived damaged.

Ebay will deal directly with the buyer and compensate them and you will keep the payment.

This depends on you having used Ebay's Simple delivery to send the watch.

[john1297576]

If by raise a case he opened a not as described ARRIVED DAMAGED, then ebay deal with refund. If no mention of damaged, then you will have to refund within 3 days otherwise buyer can escalate to ebay, and they refund at your expense and you get a defect.

If you have to refund then would be the time to try a claim on Royal Mail.

[red_magpie]

The good news (for you) is that if the buyer claimed not to have received the item, they will probably lose their case bacause the seller will be able to provide tracking proof of delivery.

The bad news is that if they lose their eBay case, depending upon how they paid they can still file a disute under PayPal's buyer protection policy, or issue a chargeback through their credit or debit card issuer.

Unlike eBay, I don't imagine that these institutions will be concerned with the workings of simple delivery, under which eBay is responsible for refunding for loss or damage in transit. If they accept that the item was missing from the packaging when delivered they will probably enforce a refund. Your only hope would be that this would be covered by the indemnity eBay gives sellers against certain types of chargebacks. (But I don't think it is.)

One of the frustrations for sellers is that as buyers now pay eBay, not the seller, any chargeback is issued against eBay itself. The seller is not even a party to the chargeback and has no right of appeal against the card issuer's decision. They are entirely in eBay's hands and responsible for repaying eBay for the sum charged back, plus eBay's admin fee for doing so. The buyer, by comparison, has legal rights at every stage, including a right of appeal to the financial ombudsman.

[jckl1957]

@tfmgtron 

I would be upfront with the buyer,.

Advise them that an 'item not received' claim will fail as tracking will show delivered.

Tell them they must open a return case through Ebay and state that the item arrived damaged.

Sorry, I know you are on holiday and dealing with Ebay stuff may be the last thing you want to do!

[tfmgtron]

Thank you for the response. The information is very informative especially regarding the charge back.

So you are correct that the case was in my favour. However the buyer has now acted and raised for a return request which I have until the 26/11 to respond.

Currently in away until the 28/11 so unsure what to do ? As if I accept a return I'm takin a empty box, however I do believe this is some scam, especially with how quick things have progressed and how the buyer has acted. Not only this another ebayer has posted the exact same issue that happened to them on Reddit 7/8 days ago with selling a watch and then the package being delivered with no watch and case being raised.

Not only this after the buyer has told me on the 19/11 the issue, I informed them I'm on holiday and I can't do anything until the 28/11 with looking into with royal mail and then to find he's started a case on the 20/11.

This is pretty frustrating from a sellers point of view. 

[tfmgtron]

Thanks to be honest I was upfront with the buyer telling them I'm on holiday and I cant do anything until I returned.

However with how the buyer decided to escalate things even when I've first responded 19/11 explaining i'm on holiday and decided to raise the case on the 20/11.

The case has closed and now they've raised a return request, to be honest he has his right but this is ridiculous as all I'm getting is a empty box and they get £150 and a free watch.

Quite frankly I don't believe this buyer is genuine and is actually trying to pull a fast one. Reading Reddit user who only 7/8 days ago has gone through the exact same thing as myself makes me believes they are not so genuine.

This ebayer has poor reviews for doing shady practices as a seller.

This is the last thing I want to be dealing with whilst I'm on holiday.

[jckl1957]

It's really important that you give accurate answers here:

What reason did the buyer use for opening the return?

Are you 100% certain you used Simple Delivery to post the watch?

[tfmgtron]

I 100% used simple delivery this is why as of today then his case has closed around item not delivered.

But now the buyer as of today has opened a return because his item is missing from the package.

As quoted - buyers comments:

"I have been advised by eBay as of today to raise a return request as the item is missing.

Please can you accept this to allow buyers protection" 

[jckl1957]

My take on this is not optimistic I am afraid.

As the buyer has chosen 'item missing' rather than 'arrived damaged', you will be responsible for the refund.  This situation is not covered by Simple Delivery.  If it was, you would have had an email from Ebay telling you the buyer had opened a case but that you don't need to take any action because they are dealing with it.

You really don't have any other option than accepting the return.

If you want the buyer to send you the damaged packaging they did receive, you will have to provide a label.

Then, you will be expected to refund them and pursue your own case against the carrier.

[tfmgtron]

Thanks for the response and advice, I had this feeling it was going to be like this.

See eBay did originally send a email with the first case raised that I didn't have to do anything due to using simple delivery.

As he lost his original case he's quickly decided to do return request on "missing parts "

Although I have until the 26/11 to provide a response I'm going to leave it until then to pick up.

Appreciate the help and advice, I thought being honest with the buyer when he flagged would at least understood the situation and worked to resolve until I got back but decided to pursue getting his money back as soon as possible instead.

Does this return label cost me anything or is this a free service ?

[jckl1957]

You would be charged for a return label - from memory, it's about £3.50.