Seller changes mind after auction ends. Illegal?

[blackmatthew]

I won a normal auction tonight on Ebay.  A second hand leather case that I bid £200 for and got at £175 or something.  Within seconds of winning ,  the seller cancelled the order.  I messaged the seller and said I had won,  been sent notification I had won, and what was going on?  He replied that he was not happy with the amount of the winning bid and felt he deserved more money.  He added an apology.  Which is nice I guess,  but how is this legal?  Surely an auction is an auction?  If he wanted a fixed amount,  surely this is what 'Buy it now' is for?  What is going on?  if no rules apply and you can change your mind after the fact (and admit it) because you don't like the outcome,  what is the point of any of this?  The market becomes a joke where people can do whatever they want and rules and outcomes are just meaningless words.

Any thoughts?

[sml192]

Whilst an auction sale is supposed to be binding there is no way for eBay to force a seller to actually send an item.  Cancelling a sale is not illegal but cancelling without a good reason is against eBay policy.   There are some reasons for cancelling that eBay will permit but not attaining the desired price isn't one of them. 

What reason has eBay given for the cancellation?  If the seller has used 'Out of stock/damaged' as the reason then they will automatically receive a defect on their account.  However, if they have used 'Problem with buyers address' or 'Buyer wishes to cancel' then you will need to report them to eBay to ensure that they are correctly penalised.  

Report an issue with a seller:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/action?topicId=4850

Also, make sure you leave appropriate feedback remembering to keep it polite, factual, and to the point. 

[blackmatthew]

So, in essence, nothing means anything and people can do whatever they like even though they admit in writing the only reason they are not honouring the Ebay auction and its winner is they wanted more money…. Thank you, thats good to know.

I appreciate the help.

M

[blackmatthew]

The reason given in the ebay cancelation notice was:  ' Buyer asked to cancel’

So its that easy?  The seller is not happy with the auction result…  Just takes it back after the sale is final and get to do it again?   Wow.  Thats so depressing.

M

[ed_58611]

You must report the seller for abusive behaviour and giving an incorrect reason for cancellation 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/buying/resolving-issues-sellers/reporting-item-issue-seller?id=4022 

[tressygirl]

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@blackmatthew wrote:

The reason given in the ebay cancelation notice was:  ' Buyer asked to cancel’

So its that easy?  The seller is not happy with the auction result…  Just takes it back after the sale is final and get to do it again?   Wow.  Thats so depressing.

This is bad selling.  The seller has selected that reason because it avoids a damaging defect for their account.

No one can force a seller to sell an item, but you can if you wish contact eBay Customer Services,  explain the reason quoted for the cancellation is untrue , you did not authorise the cancellation,  and you were disappointed not to receive your item.  CS will review the case and may place that damaging defect on their account.

This is the easiest and quickest way to contact eBay Customer Services, for a Call Back option.

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/eua?id=5275&mkevt=1&mkpid

Lines open between 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. on weekdays.

9 a.m. to 6 p.m. on weekends.

I recommend contacting CS very first thing in the morning, when the lines first open,  as there's more chance of Dublin answering.

@blackmatthew 

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[plpmr]

adding to the advice already given -

Leave feedback to reflect your experience.

[arkwebus]

Whatever the reason it is certainly not "illegal" [ie "criminal"].  

Winning a "bricks and mortar" auction seems to make a [civil] contract but there is a theory that when dealing on-line the contract is made upon despatch.   The reason might be that the item "could" have been sold to someone else during the process. 

As advised leave simple feedback "disappointing transaction - seller would not complete sale" 

@blackmatthew  

[blackmatthew]

I did,  as you suggested,  talk to Ebay.  The upshot being "Wow,  that's tough... well, there's nothing really we can do.  But we'll certainly tell the guy if he does this again (no problem this time) there will be consequences."   "What consequences?"   "No actual consequences, but, you know,  it's a black mark against him." 

So,  it's all just a big joke.  The contract between us all is nothing.  And Ebay does nothing apart from some lip service for all the money and all the loyalty.   Wow.

[blackmatthew]

What I find most worrying is that I 100% did NOT ask to 'cancel the order' after I won it,  and was in fact in the process of paying when I was informed that I had asked to cancel and the seller had graciously accepted the cancellation.  A cancellation he had clearly just manufactured himself.  He then went on to admit in messages that he just wasn't happy with the price I had won at.  

Where is the justice in lying (that I had requested a cancelation) and then cheating (by refusing to honour an auction he set up) under the banner of Ebay  (supposedly a regulated marketplace) ???

What does it mean if nothing means anything?

[alexis*27]

Count yourself lucky. You've saved having to pay eBay a £7.75 rip-off fee.

[department28]

'This is bad selling.  The seller has selected that reason because it avoids a damaging defect for their account.'

Unfortunately, many buyers fail to notice that the seller has selected the 'buyer asked to cancel' reason, so the seller often gets away with this unscrupulous behaviour.

There is no way that a seller should be able to select this reason, unless a buyer has asked to cancel. This is a loophole that eBay should easily be able to close!

And it is very unfair for a disappointed buyer to have to spend time contacting eBay to report this, only to get a less than satisfactory outcome. The least they could do is confirm the seller will get a defect.

[sml192]

@department28 wrote:

There is no way that a seller should be able to select this reason, unless a buyer has asked to cancel. This is a loophole that eBay should easily be able to close!

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As there is now a formal procedure in place for a buyer to request a cancellation, where the seller either accepts or declines, there is really no need for that reason to still exist at all. 

[ed_58611]

I agree. In misstating that you, the buyer, requested a cancellation, he avoids a deficit on his account.

Which is why you absolutely must report him through the official channel as I indicated before, because it against eBay policy to cancel using a false reason, and it does get recorded on the seller's account 

I have no idea why anyone would advice you to speak to CS in this case... sorry about that.

[department28]

There can't be many of us that haven't had this experience, probably more than once. It is extremely frustrating & annoying to spend time waiting for an auction, & feeling pleased when you win, only to have the seller cancel the order & refuse to honour the sale.

As the OP remarked, choose the Buy it now/best offer option, if you don't want to risk your item selling too low!

On one of the occasions this happened to me, the seller must have been hovering right over the cancel button, because I was ready to pay as soon as the auction ended. As I couldn't finish paying before they cancelled, I didn't even have the satisfaction of leaving negative feedback, because there was no 'purchase'...

[dch2112011]

Although it would be nice to think a seller cancelling an order is criminal - it's not - in the same way as buyers winning auctions and not paying is not criminal.

Reality is that ebay auctions are anything but  true auctions - they allow buy it now to be added and are fixed timing start to finish encouraging sniping software, they allow returns and cancellations  even ebay rarely use the word auction and refer to them as 'auction style' listings.

The awful seller practice you have come across is common on ebay , as is the awful buyer practice of bidding on numerous items then picking and choosing the items they pay for.

On saying this most buyers and sellers are honourable honest people who unfortuneately suffer because of the manipulators and abusers of a good faith system !

[plpmr]

Buyer can send a formal cancellation request.

eBay could have a system that a seller cannot use that reason unless a request has been sent.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/buying/buyers-can-cancel-order/buyers-can-cancel-order?id=4004&st=3&pos=...

[dch2112011]

Great suggestion - hopefully one ebay will adopt !

[london-mac]

Hi Matthew, I'm sorry to hear of your problem. Sadly it's typical for Ebay ... it's just happened to me too ... and, yes, Ebay will protect and make it very hard for you to do anything about it.

a) They will hide the feedback option, because they don't want you to leave negative feedback

b) They will do nothing about the seller. The whole "defect" business is worth nothing because they need to have several defects in a month in order for Ebay to react, and

c) They will lie to you when you attempt to exercise your legal rights.

Stick with me, and please allow me to explain. What the seller has done is not "illegal", i.e. a crime, it is a civil matter, i.e. a breach of contract. Not only have they breach the contract, but they used a dishonest reason to do so, doubling the offence. In short skrewing themselves legally.

This happens because Ebay forces them to 'pick a lie' in the options they use to cancel it.

Now, what happens next is that you are forced to take legal action, e.g. a small claim, which is cheap, easy, and can be done online.

BUT ... Ebay will try to make that as hard as possible for you to do, by not giving you their name and contact details. This is where the "lie" comes in, the customer service script has complete nonsense on it and they claim "data security", or what that does not work, they will claim that you need to use "law enforcement" or an "attorney" to contact them. It's garbage. It's absolutely untrue.

In the UK you are cover by various consumer rights/sale of goods laws and according to them, Ebay has to hand over the seller's name and contact details "for the sake of legal action". That's the important bit.

Once you have their name and address, you can write a nice polite legal letter to them, or even hand deliver it.

Ebay will try everything they can NOT to give you the other parties contact details but, by law, they have to. You need to ignore the customer service in India, or the American legalese, and remind them you are in the UK, and UK law says you have a right to know for the sake of starting legal action.

It's worth doing for the learning experience alone.

[london-mac]

Putting aside what is real or not, legally, a contract between two parties is still established.

I guess what you mean is that Ebay do not accept liability and act like a responsible auction house. That is certainly true but if someone want to pursue their legal rights, they still can.

I'm speaking from experience.

Unfortunately, yes, most people won't because they think it is difficult, or items are no valuable enough, which is why the message has gotten out to scammers that they can get away with it. But 99.99% of cases could be dealt with in a small claims court where there are very little to no costs, no fear of having to pay others cost if you lose etc. And 99.999% of cases are no brainers. Claimants would win.