Getting a bit sick of this over charged postage.

[gogetafix]

The last few months I've been buying from ebay quite frequenty. On some small items I've bought the postage has been set on the listing at £3.20 (Second Class Small Parcel). When the items arrive they have been sent as a Large Letter for £0.96p. I do know that postage includes packing as well. The latest parcel that I had arrive was just a very cheap jiffy bag. No extra bubble wrap or anything. So not a lot of cost with the packing. 20p at most.
Knowing these boards I know some my cry "Well you were happy to pay the postage price" and yes this is true I was happy to pay the postage price because I presumed it would be sent as a small parcel. The items I buy aren't that flat so I presume they would be over 2.5cms in depth. Perhaps the sellers thinks the item will have to sent as a small parcel hence the £3.20 Second Class postage price. 
When these sellers post their parcels and find out it can be sent as a Large Letter and pay for that service they pocket that difference in cost and don't bother sending their buyer a message and say it was sent as a Large Letter and not a Small Parcel so here's a small refund. These people must think their buyers are stupid. 
I also know these sellers have fees to pay but keeping the cost of postage that wasn't paid is all a bit of a con in my opinion. If it were me I'd partially refund the buyer. 

[gogetafix]

Thank you purveyor_of_tat. Good ID name by the way. 

Yes it should just work. Most of the time, for me anyway, it does work. It's just I've had four parcels arrive these last few weeks that I've spent £3.20 or £4.25 (in one case) only for the 'letters' to be sent for 96p in packaging (one or two in inadequate packaging) that costs next to nothing.  If I had a message from the seller explaining that the item had been sent as a Large Letter so here's a refund for the difference I would have more respect for them . Seems like they pack up these items and post them and think 'that'll do'.
I messaged one seller the same day the item arrived about him just spending 96p out of the £3.20 I paid him and he totally ignored me. 

[bobandcharlies]

I am guessing they are private sellers or very small hobby businesses - Why ? Because any business who generates their own postage label will not have the price on it - just the class of post ie RM48 whether it is a letter, large letter or parcel.

Do you really check every letter, large letter or parcel  for the price of the stamp or are you just putting two and two together - ie guessing that a package that looks like a large letter must have cost 96p - I know that large letters vary in cost by weight and a marginal oversize becomes a parcel  even though it looks like a large letter 

In fact some large letters cost more than a parcel depending on weight but you would not want to hear that - it defies your statement

[gogetafix]

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@bobandcharlies wrote:

I am guessing they are private sellers or very small hobby businesses - Why ? Because any business who generates their own postage label will not have the price on it - just the class of post ie RM48 whether it is a letter, large letter or parcel.

Do you really check every letter, large letter or parcel  for the price of the stamp or are you just putting two and two together - ie guessing that a package that looks like a large letter must have cost 96p - I know that large letters vary in cost by weight and a marginal oversize becomes a parcel  even though it looks like a large letter 

In fact some large letters cost more than a parcel depending on weight but you would not want to hear that - it defies your statement

---

Do you really think I'm just guessing? Believe it or not I have posted a few parcels in my lifetime. I am familiar with Royal Mail's sizing, weights and prices.
I have had three packets arrive in the last few weeks all of which I have paid a small parcel price (one was over the £3.20 price). All these three packets have been posted as Large Letters. Two of the packets that arrived had one 96p blue Large Letter 2nd class stamp stuck on them.  One packet had a printed label and this was from a Private Seller although having looked at their feedback why a private seller would be buying bulk loads of padded envelopes from a wholesale supplier on ebay is anyone's guess. That's another discussion altogether.

The dimensions of all three packets were less than the max size for a large letter. So even the one with the printed label I knew from the weight and the size the postage cost was 96p. I even mentioned to the seller they had only spent 96p on postage and if they hadn't then I'm sure they would have disagreed with me in their reply. 

So each of these packets had demensions less then the max Large Letter size. Each packet had just one item in them.  To put you in the picture these items where plastic figures. The max height of one of these figures is 10cms. The other two are slightly less than 10cms in height. On their own each figure weighs on average 15 grams. I weighed the figures individually just before typing this out so my statement is correct. So the combined weight of the packets with one figure inside is less than 750g. Without putting the figures back in their packing and weighing them the packages probably weigh 150g or less. 

I was happy to pay the small parcel prices that were on the listings for these figures because of the depth of the figure. By that I mean the measurement from the front of the figure to the back of the figure. Two figures have tails that increase their depth. It is hard to measure their depth accurately because arms are in the way but they are about 2.5cm in depth. Had the seller packed them with protection, ie: wrapped some bubble wrap around them, and placed them in the packet the measurement of the packet would be greater than the 2.5cm max width for a Large Letter and therefore I imagine the person at the Post Office counter would have calculated the packets to be small parcels.

So I can understand why these sellers listed with small parcel prices. What I don't understand is when they charge for small parcels and send by Large Letter at 96p they don't then contact the buyer and tell them. Maybe because no-one has complained before and other buyers are daft enough to accept they paid over an over the top postal charge. Of course you can only find out if you've paid too much postage when the item arrives. I judged these figures would be sent as small parcels as explained above. 

Before I finish typing can I ask you a question?
If you had a 16cms x 9cms crumpled and ripped white envelope with a 96p 2nd class stamp upon it with your item sticking out of the 9cm rip along the envelope and you paid £4.25 P+P for this privilege would you be happy? 

[bobandcharlies]

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@gogetafix wrote:

Before I finish typing can I ask you a question?
If you had a 16cms x 9cms crumpled and ripped white envelope with a 96p 2nd class stamp upon it with your item sticking out of the 9cm rip along the envelope and you paid £4.25 P+P for this privilege would you be happy? 

Firstly having paid for an item - I really would not spend time scrutinising how much the seller paid for postage - My concern would be receiving the item in a timely manner in good condition - as described.

If a package arrived damaged - My first thought would be if the item had been damaged -

if not - I may have a private thought on the delivery companies handling and maybe the sellers packing method and that would be it .

If the item was as described and undamaged - I certainly would not spend time berating the seller or the delivery company - I had received the goods in good condition - that was my concern

After all the packaging is heading straight for the bin!

I also understand that private sellers and hobby sellers really are not geared up to professional standards with packing or posting - that tends to come with more volume and time.

So to start with - newspaper, bin liners, used boxes, used envelopes - sellotape - scrunching into packets are all used when sellers start to sell on ebay or private sellers sell the odd item.

Is this acceptable - as long as the item arrives in good condition - Yes of course - Is it pleasant to look at or easy to open - No of course not 

But then they are not professional sellers and are not making enough money to invest in twenty different size boxes, 12 different polybags, tape machines, impact packaging. labelling machines, dedicated packing stations with work tables, all the different packaging accessories, dedicated packers and postal collections direct into the sorting centre.

Now even with all this at our disposal - occasionally packaging arrives damaged.

Here are some memorable RM deliveries

PIP box A4 large letter - Items broken - box unopened but squashed with tyre mark across the width of box - I admit we could have packed it in an impact resistant steel plated box - so must have been the packaging !

Soft garment prepacked in manufactures card and plastic packing delivered in grey plastic postal bag - arrived with both the garment and the packaging shredded in one corner - I mean shredded - again must have been poor packaging 

Large box with impact packing containing large animal carrier - arrived open and crushed - must have been the packaging

small box arrived squashed with half the contents missing - customer tackled postman who just walked off saying that was how he received it - must have been the packaging !

Boxes arrive soaked in water - left outside in a rack overnight by RM  - 

Ripped bags, crushed boxes - missing items - happen - usually by RM handling.

---

[gogetafix]

---

@bobandcharlies wrote:

---

@gogetafix wrote:

Before I finish typing can I ask you a question?
If you had a 16cms x 9cms crumpled and ripped white envelope with a 96p 2nd class stamp upon it with your item sticking out of the 9cm rip along the envelope and you paid £4.25 P+P for this privilege would you be happy? 

Firstly having paid for an item - I really would not spend time scrutinising how much the seller paid for postage - My concern would be receiving the item in a timely manner in good condition - as described.

If a package arrived damaged - My first thought would be if the item had been damaged -

if not - I may have a private thought on the delivery companies handling and maybe the sellers packing method and that would be it .

If the item was as described and undamaged - I certainly would not spend time berating the seller or the delivery company - I had received the goods in good condition - that was my concern

After all the packaging is heading straight for the bin!

I also understand that private sellers and hobby sellers really are not geared up to professional standards with packing or posting - that tends to come with more volume and time.

So to start with - newspaper, bin liners, used boxes, used envelopes - sellotape - scrunching into packets are all used when sellers start to sell on ebay or private sellers sell the odd item.

Is this acceptable - as long as the item arrives in good condition - Yes of course - Is it pleasant to look at or easy to open - No of course not 

But then they are not professional sellers and are not making enough money to invest in twenty different size boxes, 12 different polybags, tape machines, impact packaging. labelling machines, dedicated packing stations with work tables, all the different packaging accessories, dedicated packers and postal collections direct into the sorting centre.

Now even with all this at our disposal - occasionally packaging arrives damaged.

Here are some memorable RM deliveries

PIP box A4 large letter - Items broken - box unopened but squashed with tyre mark across the width of box - I admit we could have packed it in an impact resistant steel plated box - so must have been the packaging !

Soft garment prepacked in manufactures card and plastic packing delivered in grey plastic postal bag - arrived with both the garment and the packaging shredded in one corner - I mean shredded - again must have been poor packaging 

Large box with impact packing containing large animal carrier - arrived open and crushed - must have been the packaging

small box arrived squashed with half the contents missing - customer tackled postman who just walked off saying that was how he received it - must have been the packaging !

Boxes arrive soaked in water - left outside in a rack overnight by RM  - 

Ripped bags, crushed boxes - missing items - happen - usually by RM handling.

---

---

So your answer to my question is you wouldn't care that you spent £4.25 postage and the seller spent just 96p of the cash you have paid him to post your item. 
Ok, they charged £4.25 and 10% of that he would have had to pay in fees. That leaves them £2.86p Perhaps they took their PayPal fees out of that but that still leaves them with a profit on postal charges. How is that right? I'm not sure why I'm asking that question because it obviously doesn't bother you. 

I agree with you that my first thought when I saw the ripped envelope was 'is my figure ok'. The figure was packed inappropriately in a small thin paper envelope which was bound to get ripped given the fact the figure is made from hard plastic and has bits that stick out such as arms. 

Yes, I imagine Royal Mail or any other delivery company can damage items packed very well or not so well.  Years ago I once did a skint one Christmas time in a temporary Royal Mail sorting office. I've seen for myself how parcels can get teated.
Although items do get damaged which can be down to the delivery company it is also down to how the seller packs their item as well. Going through RM's postal stystem this very thin small envelope didn't stand a chance with the figure inside. Looking at how crumpled the envelope is it could have been a second envelope when he placed the figure inside it. The seller should should have packed it properly. He had enough of MY money to ensure he did pack it properly.

This seller has been a member since 2005  and their seller feedback is 1000 feedbacks. This isn't a person just starting out. This is a person who should know how to pack items properly. Afterall it's a seller's responsibility to make sure an item will not get damaged in the post. This is also a person who should not send a 96p letter after receiving £4.25 for postage. 

I have said before I don't mind packaging that has been used before. A bit of recycling is a good thing.  Maybe not a bin or carrier bag. 

[kad1178]

Just out of curiosity gogetafix, seeing as you're looking at labels and contacting sellers. When you see a seller has undercharged for P&P which occasionally happens... how many times have you asked for there Paypal email and paid them the extra?

[gogetafix]

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@kad1178 wrote:

Just out of curiosity gogetafix, seeing as you're looking at labels and contacting sellers. When you see a seller has undercharged for P&P which occasionally happens... how many times have you asked for there Paypal email and paid them the extra?

---

Well gav178. I've just bought some items. In my messages to the seller because there was a deal going on they wanted £3.20 for postage. Seller told me to make an offer via the 'make an offer' button on the listing.  I noticed on their listing they had £3.10 for P+P.  So when I made them the offer I added the 10p to cover the postage that they told me in the messages. I have contacted sellers in the past and offered them more money for postage. It hasn't happened that often to be honest. Does that  satisfy your curiosity? 
By the way I'm not looking at every label and I'm not contacting every seller. I don't know were you got that from. If I pay £4.25 for inappropiate extremely cheap packing which happened to be a  small ripped thin paper envelope with a 96p stamp stuck on it which was just about big enough to stick the item in and my item was sticking out of said ripped envelope then I'm going to query it with the seller. If you don't agree with my actions then so be it. 

I don't understand why sellers stick up for other sellers that are in the wrong. It's like some stupid pact on these community ebay forums. The buyer always seems to be in the wrong. I give up! 

[gogetafix]

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@bobandcharlies wrote:

He advertised the price - you were happy - you paid - you then took an opportunity to try and renage on your contract and renogotiate  -  the seller went above and beyond and refunded part of the postal cost to you  - adjusting the contract price to keep you happy 

Unfortunately the seller had not got the measure of you and in hindsight if he read your ramblings may have refused your renogotiation of contract price 

So you now say you are unhappy with the honesty and customer service by a great seller -

Why, is it that you just want to find an excuse to substantiate your decision to go back on your contract  ? - I doubt the listing specifically stated to be sent by parcel.

---

I mssed this. 

No the listing stated Economy Delivery (Royal Mail 2nd Class). However where did the seller get the £3.20 price from?  Answer: Royal Mail's price guide for a 2nd Class Small Parcel weighing less than 750g. The seller told me he thought it would go as a small parcel. 
Why should anyone charge £3.20 and then only use a quid of that money and then not partially refund the cash not used back to the buyer. I know ebay fees play a part so if they kept the fee that would be understandable.  Surely that's a reasonable and honest thing to do? Perhaps you don't think so.

By the way describing my posts as 'ramblings' is pretty insulting. 

[tsmgmd]

The seller lists a item and you place your bid.

You have agreed a amount you will pay for the seller to send it to you..The amount the seller pays for packing materials and the amount he pays Royal Mail or any carrier is irrelevant..

You agreed to pay the amount stated and if you didn't like that amount then you should not have bid.

Do you ask for a breakdown of charges if you pay £20+ for delivery of a heavy item from a store.

If we take your argument a step forward then any seller advertising Free Post and Packing should refund you the stamp price when you get your item as you have obviously paid postage hidden in the start price.

I think you need to face the fact the price displayed on a listing is the price you as the buyer pay the seller.

It is not, and has never been the price the seller pays to RM or any other carrier.

[gogetafix]

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@tsmgmd wrote:

The seller lists a item and you place your bid.

You have agreed a amount you will pay for the seller to send it to you..The amount the seller pays for packing materials and the amount he pays Royal Mail or any carrier is irrelevant..

You agreed to pay the amount stated and if you didn't like that amount then you should not have bid.

Do you ask for a breakdown of charges if you pay £20+ for delivery of a heavy item from a store.

If we take your argument a step forward then any seller advertising Free Post and Packing should refund you the stamp price when you get your item as you have obviously paid postage hidden in the start price.

I think you need to face the fact the price displayed on a listing is the price you as the buyer pay the seller.

It is not, and has never been the price the seller pays to RM or any other carrier.

---

I'm not disagreeing with some of things you have mentioned.  It is true I agreed with the P+P when I bought the items.  As I've said before I thought they would have to be sent as 2nd Class small parcels as the cost of the P+P reflected that price.  Two of the sellers I bought from have admitted to me they thought the items would have gone as small parcels hence the P+P charge on the listings. The items were sent via Royal Mail Large Letter at a lesser cost to them. Good for them you may say but (and I think you'll disagree) a good seller would surely reimburse some of that money paid by the buyer. 

I politely asked one seller who I had paid £4.25 P+P only for the item to have been sent for 96p with inappropiate packing that cost next to nothing what happened to the rest of the money I paid him. Without quoting his reply word for word he stated that his charge for P+P was also covering the 15% charged by eBay , the cost of petrol,  travelling time and postage and packing. So within those charges he is breaching ebay's fee avoidance policy for a start and why should I pay his petrol costs? He mentioned he lives 3 miles form the nearest post office. Don't sell on ebay then!

[andy94mj]

I understand your frustration, but from a sellers point of view, they pay for packaging, postage, and fees. Not just eBay fees but PayPal too 🤦🏻‍♂️

I sold a collectible £2 priced 19.99 and 1.29 post obv large letter, by the time I’d paid fees etc I only got £18.70 i then had to buy postage out of the hyperthetically , so putting the postage up a little in my eyes is fair it allows them to get nearer their desired selli price. 

I did not get near in my case sadly but oh well. 

[tsmgmd]

We appear to be going around in circles.

If a listing states £3.00 Post and Packing then that is what the seller is charging..IT IS NOT WHAT THE SELLER IS PAYING.

You as the buyer have agreed by bidding to accept that amount..No amount of moaning and groaning is going to change that..

I have been a eBay member for over 15 years and have never complained about postage charges..I spend my time enjoying my purchases not reading postage labels.

[purveyor_of_tat]

I totally agree with you on this age old topic. 

Orange juice from Tesco - £1.00 - comes in a tetra pak

Orange juice from Asda - £0.98 - comes in a tetra pak

Orange juice from Lidl - £0.90 - comes in a tetra pak

Orange juice from Aldi - £0.95 - comes in a plastic bottle

Orange juice from M&S - £1.20 - comes in a plastic bottle

Orange juice from your seller - £2.00 - you expect either a tetra pak or a plastic bottle (maybe even glass). 

It arrives in a freezer bag with a freezer bag tie round it. 

You know the going rate for orange juice, agreed with the price because you presumed it would have parity with the other orange juices. 

[1889double]

You are absolutely correct in your comments Gotgetafix.  You pay £3.20 and it comes 2nd class at 96p when it could at least be sent 1st class at £1.29.   Undoubtedly, the buyer is making a profit from the postage.  I advocate leaving neagtive feedback for these postage-profiteers.  Recently I bought several items which arrived by 2nd class at £1.99;  the combined postage which I was given was £6.00.  He made over £4.00 on the postage having ignored my emails prior to payment: pure robbery in my opinion.

[bobandcharlies]

@gogetafix wrote:
I mssed this. 

No the listing stated Economy Delivery (Royal Mail 2nd Class). However where did the seller get the £3.20 price from?  Answer: Royal Mail's price guide for a 2nd Class Small Parcel weighing less than 750g. The seller told me he thought it would go as a small parcel. 

Why should anyone charge £3.20 and then only use a quid of that money and then not partially refund the cash not used back to the buyer. I know ebay fees play a part so if they kept the fee that would be understandable.  Surely that's a reasonable and honest thing to do? Perhaps you don't think so.

By the way describing my posts as 'ramblings' is pretty insulting. 

You obsession with postal prices is petty - for example we and many other sellers use RM averaging to calculate postal rates -  as do nearly all larger online sellers whether on ebay - Amazon or their own website -

This means for sure that naively looking at a label from ourselves and guessing how much it

cost would be totally impossible or accurate - even we could not tell you how much an individual item costs in postage - everyone gets charged the same - irrespective of size or weight or location in the UK 

We do not get charged per item by RM - we get charged a total figure per class of post  - the total cost is calculated on the average weight of all items divided by the number of items which gives us the price per item - and this varies day to day - 

It does not matter to you financially what the seller is charged for postage or the item -individually 

You are  buying a product delivered to your address - so you add the two together to arrive at the purchase price .

Therefore you should only be worried that you are happy to purchase at the total price advertised 

How the seller splits these costs should not interest you in the slightest - If you are unhappy with the total do not buy  - don't whinge about it after the event.

I would love to see your reaction as a buyer if the seller advertised postage as 96p and after you paid messaged you saying - sorry postage is going to cost £3.20 - pay the difference before I send the goods.

You may be the exception and say thank you for letting me know I will pay the difference immediately -then again you might not !

[gogetafix]

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@andy94mj wrote:

I understand your frustration, but from a sellers point of view, they pay for packaging, postage, and fees. Not just eBay fees but PayPal too ??‍♂️

I sold a collectible £2 priced 19.99 and 1.29 post obv large letter, by the time I’d paid fees etc I only got £18.70 i then had to buy postage out of the hyperthetically , so putting the postage up a little in my eyes is fair it allows them to get nearer their desired selli price. 

I did not get near in my case sadly but oh well. 

---

I totally understand that I'm being charged postage and packing. If a seller is adding a little over then so bit it. In one instance I paid £4. 25 for postage. Had the seller sent it as a small parcel for £3.20 (which I thought that may have been the case) and either used the £1.05 for appropriate packing or packed it properly for nothing using a recycled appropriate packing product and kept the £1.05 I wouldn't have really cared. What I do care about is being stitched up by the seller sending  my item in extemely cheap packing in the form of a small white paper envelope which couldn't even hold my item because it ripped and paying just 96p for postage out of the £4.25 I paid them. 

[gogetafix]

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@tsmgmd wrote:

We appear to be going around in circles.

If a listing states £3.00 Post and Packing then that is what the seller is charging..IT IS NOT WHAT THE SELLER IS PAYING.

---

The seller may charge the price but it's the buyer that pays for everything. The item or items and the postage and packing. So in an ideal world if the £3 you mention was paid just for P+P then surely that's what all of it should be used for. No?

[1889double]

I cannot believe that there are people who are so dismissive of sellers who are basically cheating, conning, ripping off - call it whatever - buyers with a postage charge which is nowhere the actual cost.  It is just plain dishonesty on their part.  Negative feedback should be the buyerss reponse.  I am aware that some will say that you can see the postage cost, but it is when the actual cost is so much lower that the annoyance occurs.     

[*help_no_brakes*]

"I cannot believe that there are people who" look at the postage cost when they receive an item.

If the item arrives in a timely manner & is as described at the total price I agreed to pay then I am well pleased.

[tsmgmd]

What next.

The o.p bids for a item at £5.

When it's delivered he finds a old receipt showing the seller only paid £3.50 for it.

Would the o.p be messaging the seller saying you've overcharged me..

I think not.