Getting a bit sick of this over charged postage.

[gogetafix]

The last few months I've been buying from ebay quite frequenty. On some small items I've bought the postage has been set on the listing at £3.20 (Second Class Small Parcel). When the items arrive they have been sent as a Large Letter for £0.96p. I do know that postage includes packing as well. The latest parcel that I had arrive was just a very cheap jiffy bag. No extra bubble wrap or anything. So not a lot of cost with the packing. 20p at most.
Knowing these boards I know some my cry "Well you were happy to pay the postage price" and yes this is true I was happy to pay the postage price because I presumed it would be sent as a small parcel. The items I buy aren't that flat so I presume they would be over 2.5cms in depth. Perhaps the sellers thinks the item will have to sent as a small parcel hence the £3.20 Second Class postage price. 
When these sellers post their parcels and find out it can be sent as a Large Letter and pay for that service they pocket that difference in cost and don't bother sending their buyer a message and say it was sent as a Large Letter and not a Small Parcel so here's a small refund. These people must think their buyers are stupid. 
I also know these sellers have fees to pay but keeping the cost of postage that wasn't paid is all a bit of a con in my opinion. If it were me I'd partially refund the buyer. 

[gallovidian]

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@gogetafix wrote:

The last few months I've been buying from ebay quite frequenty. On some small items I've bought the postage has been set on the listing at £3.20 (Second Class Small Parcel). When the items arrive they have been sent as a Large Letter for £0.96p. I do know that postage includes packing as well. The latest parcel that I had arrive was just a very cheap jiffy bag. No extra bubble wrap or anything. So not a lot of cost with the packing. 20p at most.
Knowing these boards I know some my cry "Well you were happy to pay the postage price" and yes this is true I was happy to pay the postage price because I presumed it would be sent as a small parcel. The items I buy aren't that flat so I presume they would be over 2.5cms in depth. Perhaps the sellers thinks the item will have to sent as a small parcel hence the £3.20 Second Class postage price. 
When these sellers post their parcels and find out it can be sent as a Large Letter and pay for that service they pocket that difference in cost and don't bother sending their buyer a message and say it was sent as a Large Letter and not a Small Parcel so here's a small refund. These people must think their buyers are stupid. 
I also know these sellers have fees to pay but keeping the cost of postage that wasn't paid is all a bit of a con in my opinion. If it were me I'd partially refund the buyer. 

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You have described situations which might be out and our fraud from the start, or might have begun by accident. What is entirely clear now in either case is that the seller has money o yours which he didn't earn, and has no right to have.  The selling practices policy is clear that a legitimate P&P charge is about sums actually paid out by the seller.

An honest seller who has accidentally done this will refund the profit unasked, and deserves credit for it in feedback. If he doesn't there is nothing wrong with politely but firmly asking. But you aren't allowed to threaten bad feedback.

You have given clear and well worded neutral feedback, but that doesn't affect his feedback score, and a grey dot is easily lost among grey one. If you ask and are refused, or if the listing suggests he is going to be defiant on this issue, there is nothing wrong with negging him.

Two or three pounds repeated hundreds of times make hundreds of pounds, and on cheap items might be "earning" him more than the trading profit which is all he is entitled to have. Maybe it happened because other buyers let it go.

[gogetafix]

Gallovidian, Thank you for your reply. It was nice to read. 
In the case of what happened yesterday (after I started this discussion)  where I paid a seller £4.25 P+P only to receive my item packed in a very small paper envelope with a 96p Large Letter stamp on it I agree with you that's tantamount to fraud. This seller's postal prices are £4.25 for pretty much everything he sells. Yet it seems from his feedback that everyone is happy. Maybe they are happy and giving him positive feedback because he packed their parcels properly and sent their items as small parcels and therefore most of their £4.25 was spent.

If I have a chat with someone at ebay and explain the situation they will more than likely say to me (as they have done before) you can reflect the problem in your feedback which is pretty useless advice. 

I have left a neutral for one seller who sent me an item for 96p in a 10p -20p Jiffy bag. Because of the extra characters we now get when leaving feedback I could explain my reason for the neutral more clearly. Before leaving the neutral I did contact the seller but I was ignored. I don't like leaving negatives especially before the arrives I've had good comms with the seller and they have been helpful before the sale. I think in all the 17 years I've been using ebay I've maybe left only one or two negs.

[annie91714]

I totally agree with you about postage costs for lower weight items, sometimes the postage is more than the actual cost of the item I've bought. I now try and give myself strict rules and not to bid on an item where the postage cost is higher than the bid. 

[purveyor_of_tat]

Having looked at the item the seller sent to you, and without any scale, it sure looks like it would be  >2.5m in all 3 dimensions. 

Not sure how the seller paid for the postage, but they ran the risk of this being picked up by RM as not a large letter. That could have meant a card for you stating "something for you" but with postage to pay before it being handed over, by you. Money you would hardly see from the seller. 

Your item also arrived "sticking out" from the envelope. 

These issues are where I would have focused my feedback. These are the facts.

I would have sent them a message about their poor packaging and even poorer choice of postage method. I would then have added about the price you paid and how the item arrived. 

I agree, sellers charging way, way over stamp price is galling. I don't want to hear about their sob stories - the post office is 3 miles away, bubble wrap is £0.01 per metre, an envelope is £0.06 - give it up!

Postage is an emotive topic, has been since the day that FVF were charged on it. As above, if sellers made it FOC P&P then no issues. If sellers just added all their **bleep** P&P costs to the item price, no-one would see it.  

Sellers who charge, what is in a buyer's mind, as "excessive" will always face challenges. They should look to go about it a different way. 

[tsmgmd]

There is a very simple solution.

Only buy from sellers who have built in possible "overcharged" post into there opening bid price.

Then they will show FREE P.P.

That way you will still be overcharged but won't know about it.

[Anonymous]

I have always thought the best way to set your postage rate is to think of a number, double it and then add 20% add it to the item price and call it FREE P&P...................

[geosacha007]

This is where a seller's best friend is free postage.  Then they can put the postage in the item price and if it ends up cheaper than they expect the buyer will never know.

[geosacha007]

As a seller I always refund if I make a saving on postage (minus ebay fees of course). 

But negging a seller for postage will be removed by ebay if the seller asks.  When you buy you agree to the postage whatever the actual cost turns out to be.

[tsmgmd]

Just where does fraud come into it.

The original post by the member stated a service used.

In a response the poster admitted he assumed the service to be used, the seller did not quote which service anywhere.

The seller charged HIS amount for post and packing not what Royal Mail charge.

To accuse the seller of fraud is a serious allegation.

The feedback the poster left for one of his sellers states he paid £3.20. Yet on here he says he paid £4.25.

[gallovidian]

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@geosacha007 wrote:

As a seller I always refund if I make a saving on postage (minus ebay fees of course). 

But negging a seller for postage will be removed by ebay if the seller asks.  When you buy you agree to the postage whatever the actual cost turns out to be.

---

Then you do the right thing about accidental overcharges which as I said earlier deserves due credit, and the OP's seller didn't.

But... Inexplicable and  possibly accidental feedback removals happen occasionally. It may even be that there have  been times when they would do it more or less for the asking, for a member with a clean record, as they have sometimes done "courtesy removals" for  UPI strikes.

But a considered removal of feedback, without other factors, when the grievance is clearly expressed, is most unlikely. The new extension of feedback length enables the buyer to explain the disparity in amounts, the absence of exceptionally expensive packaging etc., and the seller's reaction to a polite request. Can you really imagine a seller drawing eBay's attention to that?

As to where fraud comes in, it comes in with every eBay member agreeing to bserve its policies. Every listing is an undertaking that it conforms to them, and breaking them in order to get an unwitting gift of money is fraud all right.

Threads like this usually turn to making similar profits by free postage, most often by people who don't actually use it. But postage fraud is usualluy with items you can buy from a large number of sellers. The laws f competition srt that out.

[kempseykate]

I tend to add sale price & postage together and not bother too much about what the actual postage cost was IF I get my item delivered safely.

However, I have in the past noted that postage is for small parcel and happily bought because it looks as if the seller is going to send my item in a box/properly packed.  I would then be miffed if it turned up like yours - not particulary because of the overcharge on P&P, but because they gave the impression they were sending packaged properly, but they only stuck it in an envelope.

[gogetafix]

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@tsmgmd wrote:

Just where does fraud come into it.

The original post by the member stated a service used.

In a response the poster admitted he assumed the service to be used, the seller did not quote which service anywhere.

The seller charged HIS amount for post and packing not what Royal Mail charge.

To accuse the seller of fraud is a serious allegation.

The feedback the poster left for one of his sellers states he paid £3.20. Yet on here he says he paid £4.25.

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To address this reply. I've not accused anyone of actual fraud. In my OP I mentioned 'Second class small parcel' to explain that £3.20 is the cost of a small parcel using Royal Mail.  The seller was using RM as a postal service and was charging £3.20 so I assumed that the item would have to be posted as a small parcel. If I were sending the item I bought I would assume it would have to go as a small parcel but then I would have wrapped bubble wrap around it which would have made it too thick to be sent as a Large Letter.  In this instance the item was just placed in a medium bubble lined envelope. 

 A later post of mine mentions a £4.25 P+P cost for a ripped letter sent as a 96p Large Letter which arrived after I typed my OP.  This has probably caused the confusion you have about the £3.20 postal price and the £4.25 postal price.  I apologise for any confusion.  I was stitched up yet again P+P wise after I started this discussion. 

The feedback you saw was for an item that came well before I started this discussion. That feedback was for the first item out of three that have arrived these past four/five weeks that had a 96p Large Letter stamp on it even though I assumed the P+P cost I paid would be used to send the item as a small parcel via RM.
That first item had been posted in a second/third hand A5 plastic bag. You will have read in that feedback of mine that I don't mind a bit of recycling. So that particular seller only paid 96p for postage because the packing was recycled. That's probably even more annoying than the item that arrived in a new cheap medium bubble lined envelope which I mentioned in my OP.  At least some cash had been spent on a medium bubble lined envelope in that case. Still not enough to justify the P+P cost though. 

[gogetafix]

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@kempseykate wrote:

I tend to add sale price & postage together and not bother too much about what the actual postage cost was IF I get my item delivered safely.

However, I have in the past noted that postage is for small parcel and happily bought because it looks as if the seller is going to send my item in a box/properly packed.  I would then be miffed if it turned up like yours - not particulary because of the overcharge on P&P, but because they gave the impression they were sending packaged properly, but they only stuck it in an envelope.

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Yep. I can't believe they put it in a very small and very cheap, maybe free charity card, envelope and thought it would travel safely through Royal Mail's postal system. Some people eh?! 

[gogetafix]

I've had one result today. I was bold and last night and sent a message to seller to explain why they sent my item as a Second Class Large Letter in a fairly cheap bubble lined envelope yet the overall postage cost was £3.20.  I was going to let it go but thought why should I. I paid them for a postal service not used.
The seller explained that they thought it would have to be sent as a small parcel and also agreed with me about the postage cost and said they should have refunded me the access postage. They have refunded me the access.
I bought the item at the end of April so why when they posted the item did they not think to refund me the access postage nearly three weeks ago? It's taken a message from me for them to have thought about a partial refund. Unbelievable!

[bobandcharlies]

The seller has treated you very well indeed - The reverse to your indignation was why did you not contact the seller 3 weeks ago ?

Instead you have let it fester and become an issue - the seller as soon as you contacted went above and beyond - they had no obligation to refund you

Seller deserves 5 stars for customer service

[gogetafix]

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@bobandcharlies wrote:

The seller has treated you very well indeed - The reverse to your indignation was why did you not contact the seller 3 weeks ago ?

Instead you have let it fester and become an issue - the seller as soon as you contacted went above and beyond - they had no obligation to refund you

Seller deserves 5 stars for customer service

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I left contacting this seller for a while because I was waiting to see if their conscience kicked in and therefore perhaps reimburse me without me having to contact them. That didn't happen. 
They have treated me well with the partial refund but if that seller deserves 5 stars for customer service then maybe they should have told me my item was sent as a Large Letter and not as a Small Parcel (which I paid for) and refunded some of the postage price three weeks ago! 

[bobandcharlies]

Wow - so a seller who reacts instantly when you contact them could have done better - Really !

Taking your reasoning perhaps the seller was waiting a while to see if you as a buyer were happy with the product and postage charges -  some people would be happy with the overall cost - even you said you were !

As soon as you made contact - the seller did not argue, make excuses - they were 100% honest and immediately gave you a refund in the difference in postal charges.

And you still complain - The seller  would have been better off - not refunding you - they were not obliged to do so - they supplied the goods at the price accepted by you.

No pleasing some customers - never a truer word !

[purveyor_of_tat]

You don't need to be bold, it should just work!

Today, I have had to send 3 sellers messages. 

1 - No first line of my address on the parcel (house number and street). With 34 houses in my postcode, who can they blame for INR? Luckily, that day there was another parcel for me so it seems RM married them up.

Seller's response - It was a busy day - you have your parcel, where is the issue?

2 - Despite me putting a note at checkout to remind the seller about writing the eCP (click and collect number) on the parcel - parcel received at shop, no eCP number. Really had to wrangle with the shopkeeper to get it from them.

Seller's response - You have your parcel, where is the issue. 

3 - Advertised as RM 2nd class, received via Hermes.

Seller's response - I sometime use Hermes if and when the opportunity arises. 

I had some crockery delivered recently. Out of 12 items, 4 had broke. The seller's response was that I should take it up with RM due to their handling of the parcels; the seller had packed them "well enough". No, love, you didn't - one piece of newspaper is not enough. If she had attempted to wrap with loads of bubble wrap I could have at least seen she had tried; I wouldn't have been so angry. 

Everyone is responsible for their actions. We all make mistakes and what's important is how we deal with them and above all, don't make them again. 

It's just not good enough!

[gogetafix]

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@bobandcharlies wrote:

Wow - so a seller who reacts instantly when you contact them could have done better - Really !

Taking your reasoning perhaps the seller was waiting a while to see if you as a buyer were happy with the product and postage charges -  some people would be happy with the overall cost - even you said you were !

As soon as you made contact - the seller did not argue, make excuses - they were 100% honest and immediately gave you a refund in the difference in postal charges.

And you still complain - The seller  would have been better off - not refunding you - they were not obliged to do so - they supplied the goods at the price accepted by you.

No pleasing some customers - never a truer word !

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I think the truer word or words would be some sellers must think buyers are stupid.
I was happy with the overall cost from this particular seller because the postage was £3.20 and I thought it would be sent as a 2nd class small parcel. The seller in their reply admitted they thought it would have to have been sent as a small parcel.  Packing cost maybe added onto the cost of item, I don't know.  So that's fine. Both of us thought it would have to be sent as a small parcel.  Transaction completed. Seller posted item. Seller pays 96p for a Large Letter. Not that he has to I guess but this 100% honest seller, as you call them. does not let me know it has been sent as Large Letter which has cost him 96p out of the £3.20 I have paid him. 
Yes they have partially refunded me but because I stupid enough to mention that a bubble lined envelope may have cost them 40p max they have kept the 40p and therefore haven't given me a refund in the difference in postal charges. But at least I got some money back. 

[bobandcharlies]

He advertised the price - you were happy - you paid - you then took an opportunity to try and renage on your contract and renogotiate  -  the seller went above and beyond and refunded part of the postal cost to you  - adjusting the contract price to keep you happy 

Unfortunately the seller had not got the measure of you and in hindsight if he read your ramblings may have refused your renogotiation of contract price 

So you now say you are unhappy with the honesty and customer service by a great seller -

Why, is it that you just want to find an excuse to substantiate your decision to go back on your contract  ? - I doubt the listing specifically stated to be sent by parcel.