eBay's false estimated delivery dates, now several messages from buyers not happy.

[lincolnshiremarine]

I have been going on about this issue like a broken record.  I have reported it several times and even been on the community chat several times.  Ebay claim the EDD's are working fine.  They are not.

Ebay are giving buyers delivery dates as same day deliveries, next day deliveries.  Even when buyers have  have selected the free, three day delivery, they are including non working days as delivery dates being Saturday and Sundays.

I know that other sellers are being affected by this too, and have reported it too.

However, I am now spending hours replying to buyers whom think their parcel is late based on ebays estimated delivery dates. 

This leaves my business open for negative feedback and the issue of asking ebay to remove it.

The messages I am getting from buyers are:

" Hi not to pleased due to the fact I ordered this part from your company because of the delivery time and it’s not happened! Hopefully this item will turn up soon"

"parcel not arrived yet ??"

Both of those cases where when they purchased over a weekend, and they were dropped of at the parcel shop for collection the same day of purchase. However, this was over the weekend.  Ebay tracking has said to expect the delivery on Monday, which is wrong, as they included weekends as the courier collection and delivery days.

When you look on the couriers webiste the delivery dates are correct and ebays are incorrect.

We have had the same issue with Royal Mail tracked on ebay too.

How many more sellers are now getting messages like this on a daily basis, and what are you telling the buyers.?

I have been selling on ebay for 16 years and we dispatch the items on time, but, this ebay EDD are on another level now.

We look like we are fabricating delivery dates just to obtain a sale, and although we have tried tweaking the postage days etc, it does not help.

marco@ebay

Katie@ebay

Dave@ebay

[irt303]

Not surprised you're fuming at that response.

"eBay does not control the actual delivery estimates displayed on the site" - what utter nonsense, the algorithms behind the EDDs (even if they do vary from seller to seller) are eBay's own.

Plenty more to pick apart in that response, but is there any point? We're all shouting into the wind.

[the_book_seekers]

- The buyer's proximity to the item's location

This shouldn't be a factor. ebay cannot say that a parcel will be delivered any quicker because the buyer lives within a certain radius of the seller. I've had parcels delivered to Scotland quicker than items only travelling 50 miles. 

'complicated formula' my left foot. An algorithm which produces the same dates no matter the service added is not working. 

[ett1954]

"Currently our estimates are 91% accurate by design."

So eBay are happy that their system only provides a 9% failure rate .......... and what percentage failure rate do they allow sellers?

[theelench]

Same as me !!!  (and so many others)

We are all different and in different areas of the UK, with different handling times and with buyers here, there and everywhere.

With so many different delivery companies, services, cut-off times and the above, how can so many FDDs be so consistently the same??

[station13thirteen]

Yes, there seems no point in trying to converse any longer with these eBay personnel when all they do is just repeat the same old nonsense.  Just look at how many examples of the utter failure of the algorithm we have given and shown, and it makes not one iota of difference.  Personally I'm finding these eBay replies to be quite condescending as clearly we are being treated like idiots! 

Some of the excuses are becoming quite laughable now.  Have they got an AI that they have no control over?  Who is running eBay... SkyNet?

How can they not see the issues that we have? It seems impossible to make them see reason. Perhaps 'Anita' is an AI algorithm?  And we all know you can't reason with 'unreasonable'... or AI.

[theelench]

"The buyer's proximity to the item's location.

This shouldn't be a factor."

I have to disagree with you on that.  I send from E. Kent and ebays calculation always gives the same answer.  Delivery should happen the day after posting or the following day, no matter where in the UK the buyer resides. 

This is nonsense and by only telling the buyer that the item should arrive on one or other of those days, sets me up to fail on any sale to the more remote areas of the UK.  That's one reason why RM gives an estimate of 2-3 days, the third of which ebay chooses to determine as being 'late'.

RM charges the same price to send to London (40 miles away) as it does to the Scottish Highlands, the Welsh Mountains or Dartmoor, which are much further away and served by less road and rail links.  It does not claim that my parcel will arrive at all of them on the same day, or even in two days.  It says 2 - 3 days, which ebay chooses to ignore.

Yes I've also had a parcel delivered to Scotland quicker than to London, but that isn't consistent, it's the exception.  Usually it's what one would expect, that the further away the destination and the more remote the address, the more likely it will take a day or two longer to arrive.

Selling niche glass, I have sent some items to these remote areas, presumably because buyers find it more difficult to source such things in areas with lower populations and pools of items.  So if ebay is taking Buyer / Item Proximity into account there should be (IMO) some variation in FDDs depending on that factor.  But there isn't.

"Complicated Formula - my left foot".

I totally agree with you there.

Looking again at the Factors said to be taken into account, apart from my delivery service there have been changes to several of them.  None of which have resulted in a change to the FDD given for my next sale(s), it's still always the same, delivery should be day after posting or the following day.  In itself the complete lack of any change shows that it isn't dynamic.

[station13thirteen]

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@theelench wrote:

"The buyer's proximity to the item's location.

This shouldn't be a factor."

I have to disagree with you on that.  I send from E. Kent and ebays calculation always gives the same answer.  Delivery should happen the day after posting or the following day, no matter where in the UK the buyer resides. 

---

Possibly misinterpreting this comment. I read it as buyer's proximity should not be a factor in eBay's silly algorithm, precisely because of what you have followed with above. But maybe I'm wrong.

Perhaps the_book_ seekers can elaborate?

[chilloutgames]

"The estimated delivery date range shown to buyers is dynamic and based on various factors"

This where we all hit a brick wall because the mysterious formula is lurking behind the vague wording of the EDD definition.

It could be that "the location of your item and your buyer’s delivery address" is mentioned to factor in international sales and is not relevent to UK-UK sales anyway - who knows.

[theelench]

Call me cynical if you want but in post #300 what are said to be the main factors of the calculation are listed with, "Other factors may be included, like the seller's shipping history" tagged onto the end.

Given how many holes, inconsistencies and impossibilities have been found in the 'main' factors, maybe they're all just a smokescreen and the real 'calculation' is lurking in the "various factors" at the end.

In my case and according to Anita's reply my sales are already arriving within ebays estimates.  Yet the dynamic calculation is reducing my delivery window still further.  Taking into account that I normally dispatch on day one of my dispatch window of two days.  It goes on to tell the buyer that RMs 2-3 day delivery service begins the next day (impossible) or the following day (possible) and declares the third day as 'late' delivery.

So what the 'calculation' is saying is that ebay wants my sales delivered within 72 hours of payment / 48 hours of posting or it's a Late Delivery.  That's not possible using RM 2nd Class so I'd better use another, more expensive, method to achieve the FDD.

In other words, IMO, this isn't a calculation based on anything logical, it's just an ebay wish list.  Bullying sellers into quicker dispatch (which I'm doing) plus the bonus of more expensive shipping options giving ebay extra fees.

[station13thirteen]

I think we can all agree that eBay's interfering software is something that is not only NOT needed, but is in fact something that is totally unnecessary. Why some tech-head would waste time and money writing a programme that serves no logical purpose is quite beyond me.

All eBay's software algorithm does is create havoc. Our own entered dispatch dates and delivery options provide the buyer with all the necessary (and correct) information. They don't need anymore info - the buyer knows where they stand and so do we  ...but not anymore.

So WHY, eBay, do you think it necessary to *bleep* it all up for us?

For the record, and once again eBay, let me emphasise this madness with what you have done to our postage options. No matter what option is chosen, everything is supposed to arrive on Tuesday or Wednesday.  So just a two day window, and assuming item is posted Monday, you are telling the buyer that they will have it by Wednesday at the latest - even on our default RM 2nd Class economy option.

And you can't see why this unwanted interference is driving us mad!

Free postage	Free	United Kingdom	Economy Delivery (Royal Mail 2nd Class Letter / Large Letter)	Free 3 day postage Estimated between Tue, 30 Jul and Wed, 31 Jul to CV10 9HQ
£2.60	£2.60	United Kingdom	Standard Delivery (Royal Mail 1st Class Letter / Large Letter)	Estimated between Tue, 30 Jul and Wed, 31 Jul to CV10 9HQ
£3.30	£3.30	United Kingdom	Standard Delivery (Royal Mail Tracked 24)	Estimated between Tue, 30 Jul and Wed, 31 Jul to CV10 9HQ
£3.45	£3.45	United Kingdom	Standard Delivery (Royal Mail 1st Class Signed For)	Estimated between Tue, 30 Jul and Wed, 31 Jul to CV10 9HQ

[technthread]

It is a bit like doing a 9-5 job and once the boss sees you come in early sometimes it becomes an expectation that you will be in work beyond your contracted hours so you get more put on your plate. Before you know where you are you have to do it every day to perform your job. I'm sure many people can relate, it is a fine line between being conscientious to get ahead before you risk walking into a trap.

A real problem here is that if a seller needs to change from what they have done in the past, eg dispatch time or courier, it is very hard to do it without piling up defects. Maybe eBay need to allow sellers who believe their EDD's will need extending to apply for a recalculation. 

[the-layer-laboratory]

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@technthread wrote:

Maybe eBay need to allow sellers who believe their EDD's will need extending to apply for a recalculation. 

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Or maybe they just need to do as Amazon does and give us the option of disabling dynamic shipping estimates.

[station13thirteen]

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@the-layer-laboratory wrote:

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@technthread wrote:

Maybe eBay need to allow sellers who believe their EDD's will need extending to apply for a recalculation. 

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Or maybe they just need to do as Amazon does and give us the option of disabling dynamic shipping estimates.

---

Yep, this is the very simple answer.

We do not need or require any 'dynamic' algorithm nonsense, it serves no useful purpose, but it looks like the eBay tech geniuses are not open to reason, logic or indeed common sense and are simply going to ignore our genuine concerns and complaints. 

Well done eBay, yet another problem created where none existed previously.  Is there a tech guy that sits at a computer dreaming up new ways to make life more difficult for sellers?

[4_bathrooms]

Hi Anita,

Thank you for replying.

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anita@ebay wrote:

@4_bathrooms  – since you are using 'Other courier' and no tracking number, we are unable to see the actual performance, so one of the factors we look at is the overall performance of 'Other service'. 

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So, despite eBay having no tracking number, having no idea who the carrier involved is and only knowing if the item arrived "on time" if the buyer indicated this when leaving feedback - which less than 50% of my buyers actually bother doing - eBay thinks it knows better than the 3 to 5 working days stated by the carrier involved and that is also stated by myself?

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anita@ebay wrote:

We recommend that you state the delivery service you're using in your listing and add the tracking number, if possible, to provide the most accurate delivery estimate to your buyers.

---

The reason I don't upload tracking is because doing so sets me up to fail anyway. For a start entering a tracking number marks the item as despatched even though it hasn't been; I have simply booked the delivery service. Then there is the problem of eBay completely ignoring my stated 1 working day handling time; if a buyer orders at 6.00pm today I will be expected to have to the item despatched by 11.59pm tomorrow or it will be deemed "despatched late". Then there is the problem of eBay interpreting the first "scan" that appears in the tracking as an acceptance scan - this is not the case with hauliers who typically don't scan items on collection but when they arrive at a distribution depot. So, if I did upload tracking I would automatically be (incorrectly) punished for despatching every item late as eBay's automaton doesn't integrate with the haulage network's own tracking.

I can choose to either have eBay deem me to have a high "late delivery rate" defect recorded against my seller level or a "very high" INR rate in my service metrics. As the punishment for the former can ultimately lead to my account being deemed "below standard" and attracts a FVF penalty I have chosen to not upload tracking and instead be beaten with the "very high" INR service metric stick instead. This is paradoxically beneficial as it causes eBay to add time onto my EDDs making them (temporarily) realistic!  

These daft EDDs aren't just frustating for me they are also confusing for my buyers. I am fed up with receiving messages from buyers thinking the (often unachievable) EDD eBay has chosen to show them is some sort of guaranteed delivery date that our company has provided. I find people are far more likely to open an INR case for a large £100+ item at the first opportunity than they are for a sub-£20 item they know their postie will probably deliver late. As proof these daft EDDs are confusing for buyers here is a message I received from a buyer on the 24th July who purchased one of the very items I provided in my example:

"Hi the del on this was 24th to 27th July and has now changed to 1st to 5th Aug. It's been dispatched so wondering why has this date changed?"

[chilloutgames]

This must be a record:

Order no.24-11887-98615

Date sold  31 Jul 2024

Date buyer paid 31 Jul 2024 (10pm)

Estimated delivery date shown to buyer: 2 Aug 2024 - 3 Aug 2024

INR Request today 1 August 2024 (8am)

[chilloutgames]

Another one this morning!

Order: 19-11859-33694

Ebay Tracking: DELIVERED Today at 4:32am

Royal Mail: Ready for Delivery We normally expect to deliver to your address between 10:27am - 2:27pm

Customer: "hi there it says it has been delivered yet i have received nothing, not even a card.... everything okay ? i think you should chase them up and ask them what is going on because i got nothing."

Come on Ebay - I've got proper work to do.

[petstation1989]

This can't be posted until the 5th but ebay has told the customer it will arrive between the 3rd and the 6th.
Either way it's going to late unless I upgrade it to a next day delivery service at no extra charge.

[dch2112011]

Haven't you heard - ebay have employed a team of clairvoyants to help with this problem, problem is they aren't that good at predictions !

[theelench]

Which is exactly what ebay is hoping you (and a lot of other sellers) will do... Extra fees for ebay....Less in your pocket.

[theelench]

Even if they aren't much good at predictions we should still see some improvement soon, then?

A bunch of Druids casting Runes can be expected to get at least some of their predictions right, if only by the law of averages.  

That has to be better than the record of ebay's algorithm writing team who haven't got it right after so many, many, months of trying and have had to resort to chanting.....

"It's working as designed.  It's working as it should."

And hoping that by doing so will get the mountain of evidence to the contrary to disappear.