eBay's false estimated delivery dates, now several messages from buyers not happy.

[lincolnshiremarine]

I have been going on about this issue like a broken record.  I have reported it several times and even been on the community chat several times.  Ebay claim the EDD's are working fine.  They are not.

Ebay are giving buyers delivery dates as same day deliveries, next day deliveries.  Even when buyers have  have selected the free, three day delivery, they are including non working days as delivery dates being Saturday and Sundays.

I know that other sellers are being affected by this too, and have reported it too.

However, I am now spending hours replying to buyers whom think their parcel is late based on ebays estimated delivery dates. 

This leaves my business open for negative feedback and the issue of asking ebay to remove it.

The messages I am getting from buyers are:

" Hi not to pleased due to the fact I ordered this part from your company because of the delivery time and it’s not happened! Hopefully this item will turn up soon"

"parcel not arrived yet ??"

Both of those cases where when they purchased over a weekend, and they were dropped of at the parcel shop for collection the same day of purchase. However, this was over the weekend.  Ebay tracking has said to expect the delivery on Monday, which is wrong, as they included weekends as the courier collection and delivery days.

When you look on the couriers webiste the delivery dates are correct and ebays are incorrect.

We have had the same issue with Royal Mail tracked on ebay too.

How many more sellers are now getting messages like this on a daily basis, and what are you telling the buyers.?

I have been selling on ebay for 16 years and we dispatch the items on time, but, this ebay EDD are on another level now.

We look like we are fabricating delivery dates just to obtain a sale, and although we have tried tweaking the postage days etc, it does not help.

marco@ebay

Katie@ebay

Dave@ebay

[anita@ebay]

Hello all,

Firstly, thank you for posting and sharing your feedback, I can assure you that it's been passed on to the team, and they are constantly looking into this to ensure estimated delivery dates are working well.

I just want to remind, that the calculation of the estimated delivery date is a dynamic method – based on existing information, which allows a more accurate estimate of the delivery date. We look at multiple factors, including carrier performance and your past delivery performance. For example, if you state in your listing that you offer a 2-day dispatch time, but ship within 1 day, it will be taken into consideration, or if historically you've been shipping using faster service than what's stated in your listing, we'll also look at that.

The shipping team reviewed some of your examples and came back with the following findings:

@chilloutgames – looking at your past orders, they are delivered within the eBay's EDDs, so we look at your performance, this is showing that EDDs work as intended. 

@4_bathrooms  – since you are using 'Other courier' and no tracking number, we are unable to see the actual performance, so one of the factors we look at is the overall performance of 'Other service'. We recommend that you state the delivery service you're using in your listing and add the tracking number, if possible, to provide the most accurate delivery estimate to your buyers.

@station13thirteen  – looking at your orders, they seem to be mostly shipped with Royal Mail 2nd Class Letter / Large Letter (2-3 day). If you list /sell your items with 'Other courier (3-5 days)', but ship using faster service, it is taken into consideration, since EDD is dynamic.

@theelench – looking at your orders, they appear to be delivered within eBay's EDDs, so your past delivery performance is being considered. For example, if you historically ship faster than your dispatch time and deliver on time, we look at that factor.

Thank you,

Anita

[lincolnshiremarine]

Dear Anita

I have raised this issue several times with ebay and provided evidence to the shipping team (I have the persons name) all they do is ask for more evidence and the process repeats.  In fact they have now stopped communicating. 

I was promised at the roadshow by someone in management that this would be looked into.  Furthermore, I handed over a folder full evidence regarding this.

I have also raised the issue that any items sent via ebay's global shipping, as soon as I print the ebay packlink label, it says on the tracking "arrived at hub". 

This is not correct as I am looking at the parcel as it has not been dropped off yet at the collection shop, again evidence has been provided.

Over this weekend we had two messages from buyers saying ebay said the parcel would arrive on a certain date and it did not. 

We also had a message telling us perhaps we should alter the estimated delivery dates that appears by the items.  This is not us, but ebay. 

We now have the added anxiety of feedback, if the parcel is late despite sending it on time, but we have negative feedback due to ebay telling the buyers false delivery dates, ebay will not remove it as "it's the buyers experience"  this is since ebay decided to change the feedback policy, how is that fair.   

Today I have sent an  item out and printed the label,  it has been dropped off at the collection shop.  Ebay is telling the buyer this will arrive (tomorrow) friday or Saturday.  When it is sent via Yodel which is 72 hours.  

Whilst I appreciate your time relying, I am getting tried of the reply which is, it is based on dynamic methods. 

How about we do it the good old fashion way, that is correct and use the delivery dates that the couriers delivering the parcel use.

Ebay are causing unnecessary stress to sellers through no fault of their own.

Please do not reply with,  "we will look into it",  " supply more evidence".  I have done that.

Many sellers have given you all you need to see the system is wrong, but ebay are choosing to ignore it.  The ebay forum is also evidence it is not working either.

Best wishes

[chilloutgames]

This is the problem - our settings are ignored by ebay, buyers are told that the impossible is possible and we are told to put up and shut up.

The orders below will never arrive on Monday but the EDD includes Monday so I have weekend customer service to deal with 'why haven't you posted it yet'.

Then there is an issue with the tracking on these orders stating to the customer that the 2nd class order posted on Monday 'Arrives Today' on Tuesday. What if they stay at home waiting on Tuesday?

04-11817-19152
03-11818-15448
13-11808-46074
16-11804-59634

All are 2nd class orders received Friday night 12th dispatched Monday 15th.
The EDD is Monday 15th to Wednesday 17th and all 4 have 'arrives today' (the day after posting) in
'track package' popup
Cutoff 3pm, posting Monday - Friday

[irt303]

Hi, is the Reference Number you mention the sequence of letters & digits on the Certificate of Posting?

I'm asking because, once I've posted a sold item (I always go to my local PO), I send the buyer a message to inform them, and attach a clear photo of the CoP - but it has never occurred to me to upload the CoP reference to eBay because, like you said, it's not an actual tracking number per se. I therefore assumed that eBay's system wouldn't even accept such a reference - it looks like I was wrong on that score.

If you are referring to the CoP reference number, then I'll take a leaf out of your book in future (for the same reason you give), so I'd be grateful if you could confirm, thanks.

[station13thirteen]

---

anita@ebay wrote:

Hello all,

Firstly, thank you for posting and sharing your feedback, I can assure you that it's been passed on to the team, and they are constantly looking into this to ensure estimated delivery dates are working well.

I just want to remind, that the calculation of the estimated delivery date is a dynamic method – based on existing information, which allows a more accurate estimate of the delivery date. We look at multiple factors, including carrier performance and your past delivery performance. For example, if you state in your listing that you offer a 2-day dispatch time, but ship within 1 day, it will be taken into consideration, or if historically you've been shipping using faster service than what's stated in your listing, we'll also look at that.

Thank you,

Anita

---

Herein lies the problem Anita.

If we offer a 2-day dispatch this gives us some wriggle room. If we dispatch in one day then it is good for our buyer, and the 2 day dispatch date gives us a day in hand if delivery is slow or delayed.  Your 'dynamic method' algorithm quickly takes away our day (or days) in hand and then expects every delivery to meet the same deadline.

Your team seem so sure about their algorithm being faultless that they appear to be looking past the pretty obvious problems that it creates for us sellers. It is of no benefit to us. We don't want it and we certainly don't need it, so why is it even in place? Why does eBay even think it is necessary to mess with our preferences?

As I showed in a previous post, when a 3- 5 day courier option is estimated to get delivered within 2 days and every other postage option is showing  exactly the same EDD, then how can your 'team' possibly think this is working as it should.  Why is anyone going to buy Royal Mail 24 'tracked' postage when they are told that FREE 3 - 5 day courier will get there just as fast!  Your algorithm makes a total mockery of our selling preferences and our postage options.

This dynamic algorithm has taken away control of our postage options and 'realistic' delivery dates.  And the more we try to compensate for this eBay EDD madness the more the algorithm kicks in.

As sellers we are supposed to be responsible for our listings, but how can we be truly responsible for postage and delivery when you interfere with our preferences and options.  Is eBay going to now take some responsibility for late deliveries and INRs when items do not turn up on day 3? 

If this algorithm is truly working as it should, then clearly it is only 'working as it should' in the interest of eBay, because it is certainly not doing us sellers any favours. 

[the_book_seekers]

When I make contact with a buyer to say an item has been posted I now included a line to advise them that ebay's EDD system isn't necessarily accurate and why. 

[xxxxxvalkyriexxxxx]

Hi e bay does not class the Royal Mail certificate of posting receipts as
valid tracking proof. You have to supply an actual tracking number itself.

Despite the fact that they display actual physical proof of it being posted
i.e house number and postcode printed on it, e bay will and have refused to
accept them as evidence of posting should a customer claim it has not been
delivered.

[station13thirteen]

Agreed. Evidence of posting and evidence of delivery are two completely different things.

We always get a postage receipt from the Post Office, but the only time we would ever show evidence of this is if a buyer thinks or claims that it has not even been dispatched. Otherwise the postage receipt is of little help in a non-delivery issue.

[irt303]

Hi, many thanks for your reply, but that's not what I was asking @theelench.

I'm well aware that the CoP reference number is not a tracking number (and so is theelench, as they clearly stated this in the post to which I was responding), and equally aware that eBay would not accept a CoP reference number as evidence of receipt in the event of an INR claim (your post said "evidence of posting", but I'm sure you meant to say "evidence of receipt" - after all, a CoP is evidence of posting, but it's proof of receipt that eBay want to see).

theelench said: "although the Reference Number isn't real tracking it is supposed to protect me from Late Dispatch defects by showing that I have posted within the Handling Time that I state to my buyers that I will do." That's why I asked them whether they were talking about the reference number on the CoP - for protection from Late Delivery Defects, not protection in an INR case.

[your.home.consoles.world.ltd]

It's good to see that everything remains unchanged.
This is probably the only certain thing in this world (apart from taxes)

Order : 12-11831-20633

Sale from July 18 (Thursday) item scheduled for delivery on Monday the 22nd, unfortunately the postman missed the customer (a decent person, by the way, she just booked another delivery for the 23rd) but Ebay knows better 😉

"Thanks for your request. We’ve reviewed your defect appeal for the transaction below and we’re unable to remove this defect."

I'm just posting this in case anyone is wondering if everything is still as it should be.

[theelench]

Sorry for the delay in replying, I don't spend as much time here as I once did.

Yes, it's the 16 digit combination of numbers and letters just below "Item Value".

Yes ebays system does accept it and in the event of a late delivery, ebay's system accepts that the up-loaded reference number is Proof of Postage, whereas ebay will not accept a photo of the actual Certificate of Posting.

Although it's not "Tracking" as such, it's more convenient for everyone IMO.  As the seller it's quicker than sending messages.  The buyer has it on the transaction and either can enter it into RM Track and Trace to see whether it has been delivered or not.  That's if the postie remembers to scan the parcel on delivery !

[theelench]

Hi Anita,

thank you for taking the time to reply in detail.

"Looking at your orders, they appear to be delivered within ebays EDDs, so your past delivery performance is being considered.  For example, if you historically ship faster than your dispatch time and deliver on time, we look at that factor."

The reason I (and many other sellers) ship faster than my dispatch time is to allow some leeway in the event of sickness, medical appointments, strikes or bad weather and ebays previous insistence that it could work out the day I posted my item by counting backwards from its delivery date.

So now ebay "looks at that factor" and strips it out, reducing the delivery dates before it becomes late and allowing no such leeway.

Why??

What does ebay gain from sellers constantly living on a knife-edge where a longer than anticipated medical appointment or any sudden emergency preventing postage is likely to result in Late Delivery defect?

I suppose I should be grateful that God has granted me a small miracle and somehow all my parcels have arrived within ebays excessively tight schedule.  Unless of course I'm correct in thinking that at least some of my buyers are lying to ebay when they say their delivery arrived on time?

I would also question ebay's disclaimer that "The seller takes all responsibility for the accuracy of this listing" when ebay is now adding its own delivery dates to my listings which contradict what I have written and that I do not accept responsibility for the accuracy of. 

Perhaps "The Team" or their managers should be aquainted with the real world maxim in Customer Service  --  "It's better to under promise and over achieve than to over promise and get a reputation for under achieving". 

Which is what ebay is doing to itself and its sellers ATM.  In my case setting me up to fail every time they show one of my buyers that a RM 2nd Class parcel should arrive the day after I post it. 

It isn't possible, it never has been possible, I doubt it ever will be  --  so why show it to buyers ??  

[station13thirteen]

---

@theelench wrote:

Perhaps "The Team" or their managers should be aquainted with the real world maxim in Customer Service  --  "It's better to under promise and over achieve than to over promise and get a reputation for under achieving". 

Well put. This is the maxim by which we operate our business, and it serves us well... at least it did serve us well until eBay decided to meddle and starting running our business for us!

[irt303]

Not a problem, and thanks for your reply.

"The buyer has it on the transaction and either can enter it into RM Track and Trace to see whether it has been delivered or not." I didn't know that, either, another useful nugget of information.

Bringing things back to the thread topic, I haven't been affected by the EDD issues yet, but I suspect that - as others have surmised - I may have just been lucky enough to have had decent buyers who reported their items arriving on time, even if they fell outside of the EDDs that eBay foist upon our listings.

A few sellers - lincolnshiremarine especially - really have gone out of their way to provide eBay with ample irrefutable evidence, a quest which began some time ago. Yet even now, in the face of all this proof, plus all the other comments and examples provided just on this thread alone, eBay still won't accept that EDDs are a real problem for sellers, let alone show any willingness to resolve them. I get the strong impression that they are deliberately burying their head in the sand in the hope that the most vocal sellers will eventually lose their resolve and give up the fight. Their all-too-occasional responses beggar belief.

I feel frustrated just reading these posts and eBay's responses, so can only imagine how much worse it is for sellers whose reputation and revenue are impacted.

[the-layer-laboratory]

It’s clear for all to see that ebay’s dynamic delivery estimates are working as intended.

The missing piece of the puzzle here is that ebay never announced that their intention is to maximise their own profits at the expense of everybody else.

We shouldn't be surprised though, should we?

[irt303]

That's the conclusion reached by many of us here - working for eBay, but not for sellers. Based on the evidence, along with eBay's responses, it's a thoroughly reasonable conclusion.

Sadly, the most cynical explanation is also the most logically compelling one.

[theelench]

"- I may have just been lucky enough to have had decent buyers who reported their items arriving on time, even if they fell outside of the EDDs that ebay foist upon our listings."

I can't think of any other way that Anita can say that all my deliveries are within ebays EDDs.

For over a year ebay has been telling my buyers who buy on Sunday evening (usually an auction) and that I will post on Monday (RM 2nd Class), that delivery should be on Tuesday - Wednesday.

Tuesday is never going to be possible with what RM says is "2 - 3 day delivery" service.  Wednesday is within RM's  2 -3 days (and ebay should count Thursday as day 3 but counts it as 'late').

I simply do not believe that RM, through winter weather, strikes, staff shortages and sickness, could have delivered every one of my parcels,  to destinations all over the UK on Wednesdays.  It just does not seem at all likely, so some must be telling fibs and I thank them all for not going along with ebays madness. 

[petstation1989]

Today I've been accused by a buyer of 'cheating the delivery dates' because royal mails API now says it will arrive later than eBay's optimistic EDD

I told them its impossible for sellers to change delivery dates but the buyer is having none of it and says I'm a rouge trader.

Amazon allow me to set very specific dates 1-2, 2-3 & 3-5 days and will hammer me if it doesn't arrive on time but at least I can take full responsibility for my own choice of courier etc that hasn't delivered when I promised.

On eBay you get pelters from buyers because an item sent by a 2-3 days delivery method hasn't arrived in two days even though the buyer chose the 2-3 days delivery method.

If I buyer has a few late deliveries in a row shopping on eBay they might eventually just stop using eBay as they might think it's unreliable so long term I don't think is a good idea for eBay themselves to keep giving out over optimistic dates but they don't look beyond the next financial quarter.

[chilloutgames]

Posting 2nd class Monday:

Royal Mail: Delivery in two to three working days

Ebay: Will arrive on second working day, if not please raise a INR late delivery on third working day

[xxxxxvalkyriexxxxx]

and today .....

Hello Deborah,

I hope this message finds you well.

I'm reaching out to follow up on our recent conversation regarding the estimated delivery dates for your orders 12-11828-31165, sold on 17th July, and  13-11832-00463, sold on 18th July. Both orders have a handling time of 3 days, with estimated delivery dates of 20th-25th July 2024 and 22nd-25th July 2024, respectively. I understand your concern that these dates may be incorrect and could indicate an issue on eBay.

As promised, I escalated this matter to our technical team. They have reviewed the situation and confirmed that the system is functioning as designed. Please allow me to clarify that eBay does not control the actual delivery estimates displayed on the site.. What appears as the Estimated Delivery Date is actually based on a complicated formula that takes into account prior history, feedback left by buyers, carrier data, and shipping options selected. It is different for different member's account as it is based on algorithms in one's account. So, this will not be same for every account though it is a same order.

The estimated delivery is calculated based on the following:

- The date the buyer pays for the item (the day payment is received is considered day 0)

- The buyer's proximity to the item's location

- The seller's handling time

- The shipping service selected

- Other factors may be included, like the seller's shipping history

I would also like to add that as per Product Development (PD) team, the EDD is not owned by the seller. It is based on a machine learned model that takes in to account seller performance history, carrier data, and buyer location. With any predictive estimate, some inaccuracy is inevitable. Currently our estimates are 91% accurate by design.

I appreciate the opportunity to share this information with you.

As always, my goal is to help you with your concerns as quickly and accurately as possible. If I can be of any further help, please reply to this email and I assure you I will be more than happy to assist you further.

Thank you for contacting eBay Customer Service, we appreciate your business. I hope you have a great day.

Have a great time ahead, stay safe!

Kind Regards,

Amenuo H.

eBay Customer Support

I highlighted two things that jump out ..

The buyers location apparantly designates delivery time .... not true .... basically if the buyer is in a wealthier area i.e London as opposed to Glasgow I HAVE TO POST IT SOONER .. e bay rules...

Carrier Data

This is a blatant lie.. all my items are sent within 3 working days and sent via Second Class Royal Mail which is estimated 2-3 days .. e bay allows 5 days from the day the item is sold to when they say it should be delivered regardless of what day of the week it is sold and more often than not give the estimated date of delivery as 2 days after buying which is when the item is not even due to be posted...