eBay's false estimated delivery dates, now several messages from buyers not happy.

[lincolnshiremarine]

I have been going on about this issue like a broken record.  I have reported it several times and even been on the community chat several times.  Ebay claim the EDD's are working fine.  They are not.

Ebay are giving buyers delivery dates as same day deliveries, next day deliveries.  Even when buyers have  have selected the free, three day delivery, they are including non working days as delivery dates being Saturday and Sundays.

I know that other sellers are being affected by this too, and have reported it too.

However, I am now spending hours replying to buyers whom think their parcel is late based on ebays estimated delivery dates. 

This leaves my business open for negative feedback and the issue of asking ebay to remove it.

The messages I am getting from buyers are:

" Hi not to pleased due to the fact I ordered this part from your company because of the delivery time and it’s not happened! Hopefully this item will turn up soon"

"parcel not arrived yet ??"

Both of those cases where when they purchased over a weekend, and they were dropped of at the parcel shop for collection the same day of purchase. However, this was over the weekend.  Ebay tracking has said to expect the delivery on Monday, which is wrong, as they included weekends as the courier collection and delivery days.

When you look on the couriers webiste the delivery dates are correct and ebays are incorrect.

We have had the same issue with Royal Mail tracked on ebay too.

How many more sellers are now getting messages like this on a daily basis, and what are you telling the buyers.?

I have been selling on ebay for 16 years and we dispatch the items on time, but, this ebay EDD are on another level now.

We look like we are fabricating delivery dates just to obtain a sale, and although we have tried tweaking the postage days etc, it does not help.

marco@ebay

Katie@ebay

Dave@ebay

[dch2112011]

This is true, defects are automatically removed where  tracking is scanned both at dispatch and delivery - so if scan shows dispatched on time but delivered late - the defects are removed.

But if  an item is only scanned on delivery and it is late - the defect remains  

If feedback shows delivered on time  via the tick box not the comment - defects are removed for non tracked items only

see below

With tracking, we'll count an item as late when:

The delivery scan is after the latest estimated delivery date AND
There is no carrier scan within your dispatch time.
If there is no tracking information available:

When the buyer leaves feedback, we'll ask them if the item arrived on time.
If the buyer confirms the item arrived after the estimated delivery date, it will be counted as late.

[lincolnshiremarine]

Hi

I think your right, we dispatch the item the same day and drop it off at the collection point (unless our shop is on timeaway) we still cannot beat ebays EDD'S.  I have supplied endless evidence to the shipping team, only for them to ask for more evidence and then the process is repeated.

Its getting to the point were I dread messages in case it is where is my parcel.  We had several this weekend as the buyer wanted them asap.  One buyer even accused us of fixing the estimated delivery date to gain sales.

I even passed over a folder full of evidence to the commericial officer at the ebay roadshow.  Promised it would be looked into blah blah blah.  Its all lip service, however it getting beyond a joke now.

When we send somethings next day delivery, it states its arriving the day it was sent.  How is that possible.

Best wishes

[station13thirteen]

It really is getting out of hand now.

eBay is making life so difficult for sellers, as buyers now see 'Free 3 Day Postage' highlighted and complain if delivery is not within that window, irrespective of the 'economy 3 - 5 day postage' they have selected.  And we are the bad guys for false advertising in order to get a sale.

When someone returns an item because it did not arrive in time for someones birthday, we are supposed to pay the return postage as we did not fullfil the promised delivery date.  So we effectively don't get the sale, we have loads of hassle to deal with, have strikes against us... and to top it all off we are also out of pocket for the return postage!

What riles me is that eBay take a decent percentage from our sales, but do not show us any respect or consideration whatsoever.

[outbounce_1290]

I have complained a number of times ( on here ) about ebays fantasy EDD's, there is NO POINT in trying to talk to ebay as the answer is always the same it's "working as intended"..

Recently ( for about  3 weeks ) I noticed that the EDD had changed to give a more realistic date for delivery (2/4 busness days )

My hopes were high..

But it was only a temporary glitch..

Items posted today using RM tracked 48 are apparently going to arrive with my buyers tomorrow..

So it's back to messaging my buyers after i have uploaded tracking to advise them  - please IGNORE the incorrect information ebay is giving you with regard to the delivery date, your item WILL NOT be with you tomorrow, it was posted using RM tracked 48 and SHOULD be with in in 2 business days

[station13thirteen]

I neglected to mention in my last message that, not only are we out of pocket for  a 'late' delivery, no longer required' return if we are required to pay the return postage cost, but as 'free' postage was included in the initial sale, ebay refunds the buyer our included outward 'free' postage cost too, so in effect we are out of pocket twice for postge costs.  

If postage was a medium Royal Mail at over £6, then we have to suffer the  £12+ hit! We are out of pocket through no fault of our own, but solely thanks to eBays FDDs.

Such buyers are often arsey and unreasonable, but from now on, unreasonable or not we block any buyer that creates such a loss for us.

[theelench]

Who exactly is Highlighting Free 3 Day Postage ?  Do you offer it as one among several options?  That ebay then takes it upon itself to misrepresent as the only, or main basic option?  Or is this another ebay invention?

I've seen it displayed on some ads. but never been too sure what it means and never wanted to buy any of the items so never looked into it any further.

This just adds more to what I said in #255.  If ebay is adding stuff to a sellers listing which is demonstrably inaccurate, contradicts what the seller has written or highlights part of the listing in such a way as to change the meaning of the listing, only ebay is responsible for that and ebay should pay the bill when it back-fires.

[station13thirteen]

---

@theelench wrote:

'Who exactly is Highlighting Free 3 Day Postage ?  Do you offer it as one among several options?  That ebay then takes it upon itself to misrepresent as the only, or main basic option?  Or is this another ebay invention?'

'Free 3 Day postage' is highlighted in green (so it does stand out) on all of our listings. This is just below the 'Buy it Now',  'Add to Basket', and 'Watch this Item' to the right of our listing page. So it's hard for a buyer to miss.

However, it has nothing at all to do with us and we have no way to get rid of it. This is simply eBay interfering. 

Our economy (default) postage is 3 - 5 days so straight away we are under pressure.  And as I mentioned previously this makes a mockery of our proper postage options as according to eBay they all 'magically' get delivered within a 2 day time frame!

If ordered today (23rd), then on our default 3 - 5 day economy postage, eBay is currently telling the buyer they will receive it 25th-26th!  So bearing in mind if bought now it would not get posted until tomorrow (24th), yet Ebay in their wisdom reckons it could be with the buyer NEXT day!

This is mind boggling nonsense! It's no wonder we are getting so much strife from disgruntled buyers who are only too happy to blame us.

---

[station13thirteen]

Free postage	Free	United Kingdom	Economy Delivery (Other courier (3 to 5 days))	Free 3 day postage Estimated between Thu, 25 Jul and Fri, 26 Jul to CV10 9HQ
£3.45	£3.45	United Kingdom	Economy Delivery (Royal Mail Tracked 48)	Estimated between Thu, 25 Jul and Fri, 26 Jul to CV10 9HQ
£3.70	£3.70	United Kingdom	Standard Delivery (Royal Mail 1st Class Parcel)	Estimated between Thu, 25 Jul and Fri, 26 Jul to CV10 9HQ
£4.15	£4.15	United Kingdom	Standard Delivery (Royal Mail Tracked 24)	Estimated between Thu, 25 Jul and Fri, 26 Jul to CV10 9HQ

[technthread]

I had a look at one of my listings now out of interest to see what it looks like at 4pm on a weekday. I have same day dispatch on this with a 5am cut off so it is next day dispatch as of now. The EDD's are:

RM 2nd Class - EDD Thurs 25th - Fri 26th

RM 1st Class - EDD Thurs 25th - Fri 26th

RM Tracked 24 - EDD Thurs 25th - Fri 26th

RM Special Delivery - EDD Thurs 25th

In effect eBay just base everything on RM 1st Class unless the buyer pays for Special Delivery. They don't seem to have much time for sellers using 2nd Class post unless we can get it posted the same day.

From their point of view I can sort of accept that they don't want their buyers closing their eBay tab down and going onto Amazon for the same product with Prime same or next day delivery. They have probably taken the view that if they don't show a fairly quick EDD we will sell less and this is the solution they have to use. 

I am just accepting now that I'll try to post RM 2nd Class items out same day even if the order is as late as 4/5pm by going to Royal Mail's Delivery Office by 6pm or a priority postbox by 6:30pm. If I can't do that I either send it RM 2nd Class the next day and hope they manage 2 day delivery or pay extra for 1st Class if the order value warrants it. 

[crybuyer]

Although I have expressed my frustration with the way eBay has handled this (and I do think they are gaslighting us), I think have found a reasonable balance:

1) Use RM 2nd class as standard but with first class options - if buyers have an option they at least know what they have chosen.  

2) Make sure your postage service has the right amount of insurance cover.

3) Use click and drop, plugged into eBay shop - it makes it easier to book a collection.

4) Book a RM collection before midnight for the following day.

5) If buyers place their order over a bank holiday, write to them so they are absolutely clear that RM doesn't offer a service over that period.

6) If you get an INR, politely ask buyer to wait until the 14 day RM deadline and explain why.

7) If you get ghosted by the buyer then just refund them the day before the deadline to avoid a defect - otherwise eBay will refund them no matter your argument.

😎 Make a judgement about whether the buyer is prepared to wait - based on their response to your request.  If you think they will just press the button to escalate to eBay just refund them.

9) Hope that you have bought enough time to either see the item was delivered or make the claim with RM after 14 days.

A couple of other things - firstly, eBay seems to be auto removing loads of potential late delivery defects, so there is something in the background which is working this out.  One one occasion I asked customer services to remove the defect and they wouldn't, but then it was auto removed.  

Secondly, my delivery model is such that I charge for delivery, allowing for the multiple options.  I haven't taken advantage of the 10% discount on fees (effectively tying me into free delivery in 3 days).  I find this to be the most transparent way of operating and the vast majority of my buyers like this approach (4.9/5 on reasonable postage cost - over 1000 buyers).

[technthread]

They have removed my late delivery defects too. That's why I have made peace with it although I have yet to have a buyer confirms late delivery defect so I don't know if those are more set in stone.

Similar to you I change what I do depending on the buyer. I'll decide on 1st or 2nd class post sometimes based on whether the buyer leaves feedback at all, and if they do - what it looks like. This isn't viable for bigger sellers but that works for me as someone who makes few sales. 

[theelench]

It's ridiculous isn't it?

I just looked at one of my listings (no sales to look at) but all are the same  --  2 day dispatch and 2nd class RM post.

A buyer who buys now (19:04) is told to expect delivery:  Friday 26th -- Monday 29th.  Which doesn't look too bad.

BUT.  I know from past experience that ebay will shave a day (or 2) off those DDs as soon as I enter the Reference Number in the Tracking box.

So I would post on Wednesday 24th and the buyer will be shown the new FDD of Thursday 25th -- Friday 26th

WHAT A COINCIDENCE  💩  EBAY.

[a45heaven]

Reference Number in the Tracking box.

You add tracking ? I know its useful to buyers , but ebay penalties can be severe.

Buying postage from ebay maybe auto adds it, but buying from your local Post Office it doesn't.

Any Tracking details can be sent in a message along with confirmation its been sent (I know messages can be erratic, but as good a solution available on this platform).

[theelench]

Yes, I do add "Tracking", although the Reference Number isn't real tracking it is supposed to protect me from Late Dispatch defects by showing that I have posted within the Handling Time that I state to my buyers that I will do.

Also I've read that if thieves see a "tracking number" it might deter them from trying the INR trick.  Not that any of my buyers have ever yet tried to open a false INR case.

If the postie remembers to enter Delivery Confirmation, then it more often than not shows that RM did deliver within their EDD, although that might still be late by ebays FDD standards.

I try to run my 'business' for my benefit and with many years of self-employment behind me, due consideration for the benefit and convenience of my buyers.  Good customer relations to me is key to that and making it easy for my buyers to see that their purchase is on its way, is part of that.

I don't see that a buyer should have to hunt around for a message (I often find weeks old messages from ebay when I bother to look at my message folder), or that I should waste time sending them because ebay has undermined its own system.  The reason the 'tracking' info. is on the transaction is for the convenience of both of us, it's only for ebay's convenience that they have weaponised it to beat-up sellers.

I'm a small private seller and despite ebays efforts at causing problems, I try to keep my dealings with my buyers personal, friendly, convenient and honest.  I'd rather risk falling foul of ebays warped calculation than have a buyer think that to me, they are just another transaction number.  Perhaps that's why I've never received a negative FB and why I'm pretty sure that at least some of my buyers lie to ebay when their parcel does arrive late (due to strikes or bad weather) and tell them it arrived on time.

[a45heaven]

Thanks for your response - in most ways i mirror your attitude, and respect of your customers (i imagine you have a high proportion of regular buyers? - i take that figure as a reflection of how well ive performed).

ebays interference generally is a negative, maybe i dont take the most cost effective path with ebay, but i would never take part in offers and such. 

We have a trading partnership with ebay, in that we pay to use the platform, so why should it always cost the seller  more to 'enhance' listings with promotional and such, when ebay them selves could improve , say, visibility for sellers, workable checkouts, combined shipping etc, but they prefer to sell those options.

That said, possibility their 'improvements' on the Search functions suggest a willingness not to make a sellers life  better?

[technthread]

Maybe I'm over cautious but I have always thought by not uploading the tracking it can leave people wide open to eBay slapping an MC011 restriction on, so I don't want to risk it to protect against late delivery defects.

I'm sure in some categories the risk is small but in others (where dropshipping is more likely to apply) I think it would be very risky to withhold as seems to be a red flag to eBay. 

[a45heaven]

Im not sure on time allowed, but ive attached feedback several days after shipping for UK sales, when a buyer has raised a query about a shipment.

For a variety of reasons, not all of ebays doing, my overseas sales are down to maybe one a month from having regular buyers who used to buy from each set of listings i ran. Tracking was applied as for UK.

As for 'Dropshipping' i have no experience nor opinions.

[chilloutgames]

My main issue now is sub £10 orders sent untracked on Monday, INR on Thursday and refunded a week later. I know that 15% of untracked does not get a delivery confirmation from my Amazon VTR training but 99% of the 15% will have arrived by Thursday with the "An update will only be provided when we attempt to deliver your item" still showing on Royal Mail...

[station13thirteen]

---

@theelench wrote:

Yes, I do add "Tracking", although the Reference Number isn't real tracking it is supposed to protect me from Late Dispatch defects by showing that I have posted within the Handling Time that I state to my buyers that I will do.

Also I've read that if thieves see a "tracking number" it might deter them from trying the INR trick.  Not that any of my buyers have ever yet tried to open a false INR case.

If the postie remembers to enter Delivery Confirmation, then it more often than not shows that RM did deliver within their EDD, although that might still be late by ebays FDD standards.

We all seem to have different thoughts and different ways of doing things to suit or selling and get by, don't we?

We purchase our labels directly from RM's website, precisely to avoid further unnecessary interaction with eBay.  We then at least have control of certain information that we can provide the buyer.

We always upload a genuine tracking number from such as RM 48 or 24 'tracked' postage, but we never initially upload the reference number as a tracking number to the buyer.

As we know, these refrence numbers are not true tracking numbers, so not only do we think that eBay automatically uploading them as tracking numbers is blatantly wrong, but we don't want to give the buyer the idea of checking to see if their delivered item has been scanned and updated as delivered... and then if they see it hasn't, try to cheat us by opening an INR case. 

We prefer to keep this reference number and check it ourselves and then (if it has been scanned) use it as proof of delivery if need be.  

If we have a suspect buyer (and you can get a good idea from their attitude) then we can also call their bluff saying that according to RM tracking it has been delivered, even if it is not showing as such, and see how they respond.  This is not for us to take advantage of genuine INR buyers, who we will always refund, but it is to sort the genuine from the potentially bad buyers.

This may sound mad, but we once had a buyer say he had not received the item, and indeed the reference number was not showing as delivered. However his attitude stank, so we called his bluff, saying that according to RM tracking it HAD been delivered. He foolishly responded by saying, 'tracking says it has not been delivered'.  As we had not sent him the 'reference number', the only way he could know it was from the reference number on the package that he claims he had not received.  

Cheats, liars and theives are not always the brightest of people so try to use their stupidity against them if they try to rip you off!  Sometimes we have to be a little canny.

[a45heaven]

So the seller knows the item was sent , that info can be shared to the buyer.

Why does ebay think the seller can control the actions of the Mail Service? 

Any demerits should be levelled at the specific mail company - so long as Dispatch dates are met.

ebay could be a mailing champion in sharing this info for mailing companies to improve, and for sellers to assess and make a decision of selecting a method of Mailing.

Although maybe ebay would not want to upset companies which pay ebay for  advertisements etc?