Sick of businesses registered as 'private' sellers

[nsa.ltd]

Anyone else fed up of seeing businesses masquerading as private sellers? I've reported around 40-50 of these accounts to the 'ebay for business' facebook account, and I always get told that they've then reported it from their end but nothing ever changes.

I mean look at this account, 3.6k items sold, and a private seller, or Hartmore Trading, they even have "Trading" in their name, 2.4k items sold, 1600+ items for sale, and a 'Private' seller. Absolute joke.

[jonatjonatjonat]

ebay do state in their policy pages who should register as a business.

As for busineses getting worked up. Its business. You want to be competing on a level playing field. 

So - take it out into the real world. You own a shop and you sell playing cards lets say.

You have to pay business rates, rent, utilities etc on that shop. All that has to be built into your pricing.

Then, along comes someone with a suitcase full of playing cards and they setup their 'shop' at the entrance to an empty shop front opposite yours.

They're so much cheaper! Because they don't have business rates, or rent, or utilities.

That's why business sellers have every right to be annoyed. And they do complain to ebay.

[the_book_seekers]

If ebay applied a decent level of policing for their policy in this area it wouldn't be an issue, but they don't. Some of these sellers need to have the fact that they are in fact a business selling on a private account pointed out to them as they genuinely have no idea. Sometimes the way this is done can be a little too blunt, but there is a level of exasperation at the numbers of misregistered sellers out there. A read of the threads on simple delivery and BPF  highlights this. There are also those that know what they are doing, don't care and won't care unless ebay tells them to change to a business account.

[lucy_farmer]

'If ebay applied a decent level of policing for their policy in this area it wouldn't be an issue, but they don't. Some of these sellers need to have the fact that they are in fact a business selling on a private account pointed out to them as they genuinely have no idea.'

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Spot on. So many 'private' sellers have appeared needing help and then get shot down in flames because they're on the wrong account. (yes, I've done my fair share of shooting, but I have tried to be polite about it )

Some of these sellers had no idea that they were 'pulling a fast one'. 

They were openly and 'innocently' saying what they were doing....Ebay have offered them 'shop' options, 'multi-buy' options, even 'out-of-stock' options... (for sellers who weren't even supposed to 'stock' in the first place!)

A few even (understandably) thought that those options were enough to show that they were small businesses. Otherwise why would ebay be offering them?

After all, what genuine private seller needs shops, out-of-stock options and (until very recently) thousands  of listings?

But yeah, there are also some who very definitely *do* know what they're doing😎 !

[superchallenge]

This is my only problem with it. If a business wants to masquerade as a private seller, then fine. None of my business. They can do whatever their conscience allows them to. But it's the massive advantage it gives them over people who are playing by the rules that really sticks in my craw.

I was doing price research earlier as I was putting new stock up. An item I would usually sell for £9.99 with free shipping is being sold for a couple of quid less by a "private" seller who has 5k feedback and 892 items listed, tons of them dupes. He can charge £2 less than me and end up making more money.

A few items later, I run into the competitor in my niche (again) who has a PRIVATE seller description of "An extension of our brick n mortar shop that can be found in [address redacted] .Stocking a large selection of retro video games, toys, and hobby items." It can't really be any clearer. But same situation. They can charge less and make more.

It used to be that the regular "80% off listing fees for private sellers" coupon that was offered every couple of weeks was a bit of a punch in the face for business sellers, though thanks to having a certain amount of "free" listings from our shop subscription, we could live with it. But now it's just ridiculous.

[edwardian-dreams]

Is there a law (like uk legal) that says you must be registered as a business seller on eBay if you are one .

say if you make all the declarations to hmrc and pay your taxes do they care if you’re a private seller or business one on here?

of is it an eBay thing 

not sure what I’m getting at

maybe why aren’t all businesses registered as private here so they don’t get fleeced or let’s say so they can’t be taken advantage of

and if it’s an eBay “law” why are there so many patently obvious business sellers private 

I suppose if you’re NEXT or B&Q you can register as private

lol

saw post yesterday about a seller earning 81k a year as private seller

i thought what? 
let alone conscience but surely surely they could,not be not declaring that  to tax authorities 

[andha-21]

@edwardian-dreams 

Yes, there are relevant laws and they are to do with consumer rights.

So a business seller masquerading as a private seller is denying consumers their legal rights.

I get why the business sellers are peeved with all this. I really do. But what they are doing is akin to treating a burn victim when the building is still on fire.

They are attacking a symptom, not the cause. The cause is eBay and the fact they allow things that are blatantly obvious. They even encouraged it for years.

So I see what they do here as pointless. If they are sure someone is operating illegally ignore eBay and report them to the relevant authorities instead.

From the threads here it doesn't appear that eBay act on many reports anyway, so ignore them and go straight to the authorities.

That to me seems logical, but something I've never seen anyone here say.

[jonatjonatjonat]

For a start...distance selling laws state you must provide your business name, contact and address before an order can be placed.

[edwardian-dreams]

Oh right , didn’t think of that 

thanks for that reply

but what if a private (not really private but a trader business ) seller offers consumers all rights 30 days money back etc free returns whatever else 

sorry being devils advocate here 

just bored and on me Tod  tonight 

doesn’t concern me personally just gassing 

miss my debating days 

[jonatjonatjonat]

a private seller might be able to present their business name (as their username at a push) but wouldn't technically be able to include contact and business address in the listings.

[lucy_farmer]

'Is there a law (like uk legal) that says you must be registered as a business seller on eBay if you are one ...'

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There are laws that online business sellers have to adhere to. These are UK Consumer laws and Distance selling regulations.

They are mostly to do with buyer's rights of return, cooling-off periods and the like. But there is *one* regulation that makes ebay private accounts totally incompatible with being used, legally, by businesses.

This is the rule, that online business sellers ( on whatever platform or site, not just ebay) *have* to have their name, address and contact details on every listing.

Ebay very firmly will *not* allow any sellers details to appear on a private listing and will come down like a ton of bricks if seller and potential buyer even try to exchange details.

This is to stop "off ebay' trading and fee avoidance.

It's not an HMRC thing: they don't care where or how you sell so long as you tell them about it and pay your taxes.

Ebay *should* care about it but haven't been bothered about it ...though this *may* be changing soon.

Because 'officialdom' and it's computers, are starting to catch up with online money making schemes.

This has allowed the OECD to pass new laws on 'online money laundering', which is why ebay users details are now being passed to HMRC (once they've reached the sales limit) 

This *might* be the vanguard in various govt. and business computers linking up to see what's going on in general 'online'. If this happens,  (and I think it's fair possibility)  it will become obvious that ebay has been encouraging businesses to fly illegally 'under the radar'.

And this will not be a good look for a Global Tech Company.....

[arboretum-carpentry]

It's no fault of the sellers - fees for Businesses are absolutely wild compared to private accounts where it's zero fee (apart from the buyer protection fee, which is a few on the seller for those who understand how commerce works).

It's on eBay to actually police this. They don't. And given my experience of starting my business as a private seller then converting to a business account when the buyer protection fee came on, my sales fell off a cliff and stayed there.

eBay doesn't give a damn about Business sellers. The days of most businesses succeeding on eBay are gone.

[jonatjonatjonat]

Sellers shouldn't register as a business when required because ebay charge to much. But should still get the benefit of selling on ebay to millions of customers for free.

Got it.

[arboretum-carpentry]

There's zero consequence, ebay enforce nothing - you can sell thousands of items a month as a private seller. When you're running a business, if you don't do everything possible to maximise your profit you should be doing something else. Salaried jobs are really useful for those who don't want to hustle every day and push every rule to succeed.

Ebay should fix this by actually policing their own policies, OR actually incentivising people to convert to business accounts. My own experience is that it's far harder selling on ebay as a Business seller, both in terms of the fees you pay and the rankings having no improvement over private accounts (if anything, they go down).

[jonatjonatjonat]

the word 'push' doing a lot of work there.

Of course its harder selling as a business seller. there's all those private sellers that were undercutting you!

[arboretum-carpentry]

Given that I like any ambitious business continually review prices to compete and undercut competition wherever possible - including private sellers who automatically get a 15% fee bumped on top of their pricing - being undercut by private sellers isn't exactly a factor. Getting de-ranked the moment you convert to a business account because it's not what eBay wants any more - that's a factor. Look anywhere in this community and you'll see business after business reporting the same experience.

And yeah, good businesses push. To exhaustion, every day, to achieve anything and everything we can. 

[moldosgifts]

I am unfortunately one of the blunt ones, it's the way I am I call a spade a spade no mucking about,

I find if you flirt around the fact they are a business the message doesn't sink in.

But i give them time before putting in a report.

I find allot think because they have a shop they are a business, and some just think its a hobby to go to charity shops and buy to sell on. The fault lies with ebay for not policing it properly. And it's left to the members to put it right, and to be fair most i challenge to do convert eventually to a business.

[moldosgifts]

Yes it falls under misrepresentation.

[superchallenge]

And yeah, good businesses push. To exhaustion, every day, to achieve anything and everything we can. 

Quite the opposite. Bad businesses push to exhaustion because the flaws in their model require them to in order to stay alive. Good businesses just conduct good business in a normal, non-exhausted (and therefore measurably more productive and efficient) manner.

[arboretum-carpentry]

*Looks around at his apparently bad business*...

To each their own buddy. Shalln't share your thoughts with the businesses I work with.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

"Given that I like any ambitious business continually review prices to compete and undercut competition wherever possible"

This is probably what the response was about previously.

Unless you are on the model, build them high, sell them cheap, then it's not generally good practice to be continually cutting prices to beat competition.

The problem with doing that, is that you are constantly eroding your margins and will, given sufficient time, disappear.

Even on Ebay it doesn't have to be all about cheapest price.

If you can offer a better service than the next seller, once known, you tend to do just as well.

And I really don't believe that private accounts get better visibility etc.  What they do get (when actually a business), is much cheaper costs, which in turn means that they can sell cheaper.