Sick of businesses registered as 'private' sellers

[nsa.ltd]

Anyone else fed up of seeing businesses masquerading as private sellers? I've reported around 40-50 of these accounts to the 'ebay for business' facebook account, and I always get told that they've then reported it from their end but nothing ever changes.

I mean look at this account, 3.6k items sold, and a private seller, or Hartmore Trading, they even have "Trading" in their name, 2.4k items sold, 1600+ items for sale, and a 'Private' seller. Absolute joke.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

I suggest that you look at the comment that the prior poster actually responded to, instead of trying to be clever!

[jil_3862]

I sell lots of stuff, I sell for friends and family , myself and a charity. It’s definitely not a business I just love doing it. 

Can I ask why that is classed as trading? Is it the selling for other people or the "lots" of stuff? Just curious!

Been a very interesting thread to read through, lots of good information and ideas, thanks.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

The very fact that you are selling items for other people makes you a trader.

To avoid this, you ONLY sell your own items that have NOT been bought to resell.

It's not lot's of stuff by any means.  If you sell more than £1000 of goods in any year, you must register with HMRC.  Rules surrounding this are changing, but the £1000 is pretty set for tax.

https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Announcements/Supporting-side-hustlers-HMRC-to-raise-threshold-for-s...

I would strongly advise that you go look at the HMRC website and understand what you can/cannot do in regards to trade.

I get where your coming from with the "I love doing it", but there is a point where it does become a business.  It may well be a micro business, but a business none the less.  🙂

There are many people on Ebay that fall into this bracket.  Most not even realising that they are indeed a business.  But that is going to change with the new rules about reporting to HMRC.  It will leave people with no option but to register I'm afraid.

[jil_3862]

Thanks, but it wasn't me who originally said it. Was a lady you replied to a month or so ago.
My selling account is a business account, and fully compliant already!

Was just curious, if simply selling items for other people makes a seller a business then even more private sellers than I thought should actually be ona business account.
I'm not sure about the new HMRC reporting necessarily meaning people will have to register as a business, or self-employed. I was under the impression that if they were satisfied that they were just personal goods sold, the seller would just pay any tax due. Paying taxes and registering as a business don't always go hand in hand, my first four years as a sole trader there wasn't enough profit to pay any tax on!

[therenewalworkshopltd]

If they are personal goods, then no, they won't need to register.

I was actually talking about all of the sellers who do not realise that they should be registered.

There are many of these, who simply don't understand that they are trading, even though it's just for a bit extra....

But yes, if you selling items for someone else, then you are a trader.  Doesn't matter whether it's close family or just a neighbour etc.  And it doesn't even matter if your not taking a commission.  Though this sort of thing goes on all of the time and if it's small scale, which the majority is, it's not an issue.

A lot of this is down to how much.  If you sell the occasional thing for someone else then it's fine.  But if your doing it every week, it's not going to be fine.  🙂

[jil_3862]

Yes, maybe technically they should be a business, but that sort of private seller doesn't bother me.

It's the ones blatantly trading as a business, knowing perfectly well that it's not right to do so that get my goat.

But seems there's nothing going to be done about them, just have to beat them on other grounds than price, never believed in a race to the bottom anyway.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

I don't have an issue with the penny traders.  They come and go all the time and it's been a mainstay of the likes of Ebay for many years.

The only concern I was raising, is that a lot don't realise that they are trading and as a consequence, if they hit the threshold for reporting, could find themselves with a tax bill.

What upset the applecart, was giving free fees and making it attractive to business sellers to use a private account.  These are the ones that need to get sorted.  Some are just so blatant, it's ridiculous.

[porsche1980]

What about people who have large collections of items like coins, scale models, poster prints, ceramics and so on? Some of this stuff may well be classed as 'new' with hundreds of listings and so look like a business when it is not. I've bought numerous mint stamps in the past from Royal Mail so if I decide to sell them I don't want to be told to switch to a business account. In any case, what's the attraction of such an account? You're paying a monthly fee, paying for each listing plus a final value fee. I think things were a lot simpler in eBay's early days.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

That's a whole different level.

But at the end of the day, it really just depends on how things are being done.

If you are buying with the intention of selling for a profit, you are a business.  It's as simple as that.

If however you are just reducing your collection, then your a private seller.

But at the end of the day, if your doing a lot of turnover, then you will likely have to convince HMRC and not Ebay, that you are not a business.  So that should be born in mind.

Nobody really knows the reasons why Ebay will request you to change to a business account.  But it's likely to be something to do with volume of sales.

As to advantages of a business account, it's not really about that.

Business sellers who are using a private account, are not complying with the law.  And that is the issue at the end of the day.

And things may well have been simpler in the early days, but the rules/laws have changed since then.  And if Ebay where to not change at all, they would have disappeared a long time ago.

[jonatjonatjonat]

I still think there needs to be clarification on what new is. though i accept ebay has a definition of it that I don't agree with.

If you bought something as a collector but kept it in its packaging. Its not new - as you owned it.

Its Used, Like New.

The problem is when certain categories label something like hte above as brand new. Its not correct.

[edwardian-dreams]

No it’s new

like it would be in  shop sitting there for a year 

unused just like yours 

if you have something bought in 1980 say sat there, in its box, unwanted present or never opened how is it used it’s still new

New means never  used surely 

so my mum bought something in 1980 gave it to me I never opened it it’s new

if I’d opened it and kept it in a cabinet it is used it I’d say but  like new as it wasn’t used as  in id only displayed it 

sorry haven’t read this thread so don’t know why was being talked bout exactly here re my reply

[dch2112011]

Once an item has been purchased by a consumer or business from a retail outlet it becomes second hand-

If resold generally guarantees and returns to the original outlet are no longer allowed. 

This should not be confused with businesses who are authorised stockists/ resellers who sell new items on behalf of the manufacturer.

The description New is incorrect when it refer to unused second hand goods 

The meaning of the word new when selling is described as follows :

adjective 
Something that is new has not been used or owned by anyone.

[jil_3862]

There is no " attraction of such an account", nobody wants to pay the fees.
But if trading as a business the only way to comply with consumer law on ebay is to register as a business account.
So the more ethical automatically do that, while the less scrupulous trade as a private account and can afford to undercut those of us paying fees. You can understand the bad feeling about it!

[porsche1980]

When someone registers to sell surely it's up to eBay to make it clear what account is required by stating T+Cs and consumer law. But I reckon anyone can sign up and do what they please - that seems quite evident.

Still, I don't see why folk get worked up about those operating a private a/c when it should be business. I'd have thought this is a matter for eBay to sort out so why not complain to the company.

[moldosgifts]

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@jonatjonatjonat wrote:

I still think there needs to be clarification on what new is. though i accept ebay has a definition of it that I don't agree with.

If you bought something as a collector but kept it in its packaging. Its not new - as you owned it.

Its Used, Like New.

The problem is when certain categories label something like hte above as brand new. Its not correct.

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And selling 6 of the same item and claiming they are all new is defined as business trading, and is illegal on any platform.

But hey i just report them with the evidence.

Thank you for your sensible views 👍

[moldosgifts]

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@porsche1980 wrote:

What about people who have large collections of items like coins, scale models, poster prints, ceramics and so on? Some of this stuff may well be classed as 'new' with hundreds of listings and so look like a business when it is not. I've bought numerous mint stamps in the past from Royal Mail so if I decide to sell them I don't want to be told to switch to a business account. In any case, what's the attraction of such an account? You're paying a monthly fee, paying for each listing plus a final value fee. I think things were a lot simpler in eBay's early days.

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And Board games several of the same one !

[moldosgifts]

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@porsche1980 wrote:

When someone registers to sell surely it's up to eBay to make it clear what account is required by stating T+Cs and consumer law. But I reckon anyone can sign up and do what they please - that seems quite evident.

Still, I don't see why folk get worked up about those operating a private a/c when it should be business. I'd have thought this is a matter for eBay to sort out so why not complain to the company.

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No it is your responsibility to comply with all local laws, so when you register make sure which account you need, not the cheapest one,

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Ebay do make it clear which account is required when signing up.

People choose to ignore it.

Aside from which, if operating a business, then they themselves are liable for breaking the law and not Ebay.

As to why people get worked up about it.  It's very simple.  By using a private account, those traders are paying less in fees and are trading illegally.  They therefore have an advantage over those registered correctly.

[lucy_farmer]

'Still, I don't see why folk get worked up about those operating a private a/c when it should be business. I'd have thought this is a matter for eBay to sort out ....SO WHY NOT COMPLAIN TO  THE  COMPANY.'

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Oh they do mate! ..the 'report' button gets a lot of use.

And........... nothing happens.☹️

[jonatjonatjonat]

This was the description I was grasping for. thank you