If you were EBay what would you have done to sort out the private/business problem

[spence0175]

Firstly can we all stop arguing amongst ourselves. This is EBay’s mess not ours. People are fed up and angry but we should not take it out on each other.

So many things could have been better thought through before implementation.

So they are coming down hard on private sellers.  If you make things hard for private sellers it will just drive them away

But they could have had better incentives to encourage people to becoming a business. Lower the shop fees especially the basic shop. 
Same fees for all across the board.

Limit private to used only. 
Cheaper promoted prices for those who want to use promoted

When it’s not expensive to have a shop or be a business surely it’s a way of attracting more to becoming properly registered.

Anyone else and please no arguing….

[da-vids]

Just re read your post, interesting thanks for posting. Re the title of the thread there seems to be consensus with having equal fees, less eBay control more simplicity, seen across other thread too recently. Wonder if eBay would even consider what is being said. If it's not possible to equalise something like fees just what do they know that prevents it that we don't know. If it's about the competition lower fees and blow the competition out the water.

[spence0175]

That’s the thing. Even though EBay say they listen. They don’t. It’s one mish mash of ideas that keep coming.

They can’t have free for private and business pay.  It’s just not fair or right….

I just feel that this new idea will drive more private away. Good sellers that have been here a long time…plus as a collector I buy a lot, mostly from private. I do not want to pay loads more in fees as well as the large amount of fees that I pay as a seller. 

[da-vids]

"It’s just not fair or right…."

It's as if they don't have to reduce business fees so they don't and because of competition they have to reduce private fees. Plain to see it isn't fair or right or proper or rocket science. No value put on good will of all users, good will can be monetised, just imagine eBay charging less fees and actually making more money, quite possible if they tried it long term.

[the_book_seekers]

Business selling is a game of numbers. ebay giving private sellers 1000 free listings and allowing them to roll over was a big mistake. Giving them fee free selling without properly addressing the private/business problem first just made it worse. Nobody at ebay towers seemed to think through the consequences. Cutting the allowance to 300 and still allowing existing listings to roll over doesn't seem to have dented the problem - 3600 listings a year plus roll over, plus fee free selling, there's still no incentive to register as a business. I don't begrudge genuine private sellers fee free selling and free listings, but if ebay won't investigate the private/business accounts (and god knows many of them are blindingly obvious) then the obvious way to deal with them is to restrict their listings abilities ie end the monthly roll over. 3600 listings a year is still a good number - the same as the BINs which come with a basic shop. Restricting listings to 100 per month with no roll over may kill the problem over night.  Unfortunately this would adversely effect some genuine private sellers and at the moment ebay is doing its best to upset them with Simple Delivery, monetary holds, removing access to some tools and the buyer protection fee all of which I think the private/business seller will adapt to. 

[da-vids]

The odd £1 FVF promotions for private sellers was one thing, then it was 50% off then 70% then 80% then a permanent 70%, so this is great, who gives a 💩 about rules when such a good deal. THEN without anyone asking made it a permanent 80%. Well 70% was fine so to go to 80% they must have seen a difference in activity between 70 and 80, then thought we'll make more money giving no fees as it's worked well in Germany, then thought whoops better change again to 4% (basically 80% off in different clothes) Maybe looking at the numbers they are in trouble and not even shareholder due diligence has noticed yet.

[game_raid]

I am talking about all sellers, the policy applies to both individual and professional accounts, individual accounts are typically for low volume sellers and those selling used items.

You can sell on Amazon as a private individual, a sole trader, or a limited company, but as soon as a set turnover has been reached they force you to change to sole trader or limited company.

I did mention this in my reply that some were looking to sell on there and I also mentioned the marketplace is totally different to eBay, some seem to think It is just the same as selling here which it isn't so I added the payout policy for those that are thinking about joining to consider because they will be subject to this.

I get also get paid on demand but had to apply for an extension which will expire in September, I have sold on there for over 10 years now, they introduced DD+7 in 2016 for all new sign ups with no exemptions, all this is well documented.

[bravergrace]

The "trouble" may possibly be more of a regulatory thing than just cash.

From time to time, governments (not just ours) do make noises at eBay about legal requirements, and occasionally government bodies - or spokesmen, or journalists - make threats that result in action.

Over the years, this has resulted in eBay changing its rules about returns, prescription drugs, fake goods, VAT, business contact details, knives and firearms, safety disclaimers, homemade baby toys, P&P options for batteries, expiry dates on foodstuffs...

Suppose some person in authority (I don't know who, very likely the Astronomer Royal) dropped a broad hint that since eBay was hosting obvious UK businesses masquerading as private sellers to deprive consumers and the government of their rights because they avoided VAT, didn't display contact details, didn't accept returns, deprived customers of their legal rights by pretending to be "private sellers" - well, if the situation wasn't addressed by eBay, all eBay sellers would be treated as businesses, and eBay would be liable for all VAT and income tax evasion on their site - well, in those circumstances, eBay would start taking action.

It actually doesn't like being called an online flea market, and it certainly didn't like being threatened with liability for VAT evasion by Chinese sellers a few years ago, did it?

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Maybe you where talking about all sellers, but what you quoted was:

I actually don't think that the changes are as bad as everyone thinks.

The one thing that I really don't like, is the holding private sellers money for a couple of weeks.

No other site that I'm aware of does this.  So seems a little unfair.

Which is quite clearly about private.

Again, Amazon is not the place for private sellers.  It hasn't been for a long time.

And I do actually remember years back selling off my old CD's and books on Amazon, which was actually a really good place to do so.  But there are now so many hoops to jump through, it makes absolutely no sense for a private individual to sell on there.

[books-of-lore]

ebay put the fees on postage due to sellers selling a £100 item charging £1 for it and having £99 postage .they could of done it a much better way but this way they make money on everything

[eyewear247]

The first thing I would do would be to not allow multi variation listings and only allow listings for single units.

It would be very are for a genuine private seller to need a variation listing offering different sizes/ colours of the same item. If a genuine private seller did have more than one unit of a single item they would have to wait until the listing for the single unit has been sold and then relist.

[abrahamtoast]

Once again, someone posts without bothering to think first.

Variation listings are ideal for private sellers selling off, say, a collection of magazines, as they can offer a choice of multiple different issues of the same magazine. It's better for buyers too, who can purchase a number of issues from those on offer, on one listing. As long as they are used for this type of product, I honestly can't see why you would object, unless it's purely out of spite.

Now if you had thought of that pretty obvious example, and tempered your comment to something along the lines of "private sellers should not be able to post variation listings on new items", I might have been inclined to agree with you.

[eyewear247]

@abrahamtoast 

Many thanks for your reply but I have posted after plenty of thinking....

After seeing with my own eyes the masses of business sellers abusing the situation eBay have afforded them since October it has been like the wild west and getting worse by the week.

I stand by what I said and it is not out of spite, it is out of frustration. It is after seeing countless private business sellers in my categories racking up massive sales numbers using variation listings for the same brand new items is different colours with zero selling fees and without offering returns. This is effecting my business as I have seen a massive down turn in sales since October with no improvement in sight.

Of course there are some genuine private sellers that could use variation listings. There will always be winners and losers when a new policy is introduced but I will bet my kids inheritance that private magazine sellers using variation listings will be a massive minority over the private business sellers abusing the system.

[adrian_in_the_uk]

If I was eBay and I wanted to stop business sellers posing as private sellers, I would do the following...

Firstly, I would restrict the amount of items you can list per category.

How would it work - well, eBay know everything that you list, so they should easily be able to recognise that the person is actually a business by the volume they list and also by which items they list.

So if eBay detect that you're a business in disguise - restrict you to listing 1 item in each category per month.

Secondly, business sellers who sell electronics - should be forced to guarantee second hand items for 6 months and new items for 12 months, if they do that I would scrap fees for them.

This would mean they can stop business sellers who pose as private sellers undercutting their prices and customers would be more likely to buy the item knowing it has a guarantee.

Thirdly, as far as I am aware, you can have as many seller accounts as you want, you can use the same bank account for 3 or 4,

So if you have 3 bank accounts you could essentially have 9 seller accounts.

The maximum should be 2 - one for selling general items and one for selling your xmas presents without offending the person who gave you it.

If you have forgotten the details of one of your 2 accounts - you provide eBay with security info and can switch that account back to a buyer only account if you want to start afresh.

Finally, some people start a new account just because they get a negative feedback - eBay should take a human approach to what 'unreasonable feedback' is and remove unfair feedback.

This would mean less people opening new accounts just because they got a negative, however eBay should not go down the route of removing a negative feedback just because the seller refunded the buyer.

If a seller does not pack an item very well and gets a negative because it arrived broken - giving a refund should not mean that feedback gets removed, sending items without packing them securely shows lack of a respect for your buyer.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Secondly, business sellers who sell electronics - should be forced to guarantee second hand items for 6 months and new items for 12 months, if they do that I would scrap fees for them.

This would mean they can stop business sellers who pose as private sellers undercutting their prices and customers would be more likely to buy the item knowing it has a guarantee.

As there is a legal requirement for a period of time on exactly this kind of equipment, then why should anyone get free fees for it.

I understand that your aiming at "private" sellers, but the obvious fix for this kind of thing is simply to not allow them to sell brand new items.  A simple workaround to that, is to sell "Like new" items or "unused".

You cannot force real private sellers to honour a 12 month warranty.  If an item is sold privately, then apart from certain items, warranties are not transferable.  And frankly as a business seller, the cost of fees compared to the cost of replacing an expensive defective electronic item is marginal.  

Unless taken back by the manufacturer, it is a total loss, plus the cost of a replacement and shipping etc.

[555njp]

I actually think a simple solution would be to make it just slightly more attractive to sell as a business than as a private seller, and before everyone attacks me, I do actually have both.

So either: Free to list for both, 10% FVF for Business sellers, 12% FVF for private.

or: Free to list as business, tiered listing fees for private, I.e. first 50 items per month free, then 20p per listing after that. Both business and private sellers pay same FVF at 10% or 12%

Why give businesses the advantage?

Because in theory at least they will sell infinitely more than a private seller making eBay more revenue so should get a discount on fees.

Making it slightly less attractive to sell on a private account wouldn’t affect genuine private sellers accounts but certainly stop those trying to illegally trade on one as no longer worthwhile.

No reason why eBay couldn’t occasionally offer a free listing or reduced FVF promotion for Private sellers too.

Listing positions should be determined by the standing of the account. Higher feedback, best metrics etc. should appear first.

Ditch PLs and make it a completely fair and level playing field, stop manipulating search and hiding listings in favour of promoted items.

Unless Malicious or completely unfair, feedback should be left well alone. Individuals should only be allowed a maximum of 2 accounts. One private, one business, or one buying, one selling, if you get a neg you will be judged on how you respond to it.

Doing the above should see both buyers and sellers return in their thousands and eBay’s profits rise.

[santlache_sales]

less eBay control more simplicity

Basically rolling it back to what eBay was like 20 years ago, when fees were low, eBay didn't control every aspect of a sale and you were left to get on with it and develop your business.

eBay were making record profits and record growth every quarter back then, before they lost the plot and basically got greedy deciding to treat their sellers (particularly businesses) like a cash cow.

And here we are today, others have come along and ruined eBay's stake, but also showing up their utter greed in the fees they charge.

[santlache_sales]

ebay put the fees on postage due to sellers selling a £100 item charging £1 for it and having £99 postage .

That is the massive lie eBay told the world.....as opposed to policing it themselves.

The real reason for the 10% fee on P&P dates back to when eBay decided to push all sellers to offer free postage. This meant sellers had to load the postage on the sale price and of course eBay would then get a bigger FVF off you.

Everyone soon saw through it and few took it up and continued to charge for P&P, as it is never free.

This of course screwed eBay over and the extra revenue they thought they'd be getting never materialised, so it was then they decided to shaft everyone still charging P&P and whacked a 10% fee on it.

Bingo - eBay got the extra revenue and more in one swoop, then justify it with utter lies.

It was all about getting them extra revenue boost, and it worked.

[crg_music]

Free: 20 items a month or £200 limit which ever comes first(obviously auctions may take things over), no new items, none of the multiple/bulk discounts. 

Then a middle ground paid private account with a £1000 limit.

It should effectively be like a free to play game, to unlock it you have to pay.

I just dont see why anyone would need 300 items every month, it wouldnt be so bad if it was like a shop were they reset but it doesnt. Maybe this is a trap to encourage private sellers to have to upgrade to a business?

Business account flat £30 and scrap the listing limits, make it really worth having and loads more will join up and businesses will list a lot more. Sure more competition but will draw in buyers, as it stands ebay is not really the place to go for anything now, it does everything but stands out nowhere really.

[jokers_toybox]

I fully agree about the jump from middling to top tier shops, there really needs to be something in between as stores grow, I actually dropped from middle to bottom and I'm seeing better sales, just have to monitor it and have cracked down on listing cheaper items and put those out on other marketplaces.

[jokers_toybox]

The postage fee came in due to sellers abusing the system and selling expensive stuff at 99p and charging £300 for postage, they'd only pay fees on the 99p so this was the best way of killing that off for eBay