Hmrc reporting January 2025

[equinox-electronics]

Are we all ready for the avalanche of activity that this will bring next month on the forums.

Seems Ebay's wording at the beginning of the year on there announcement that only newly registered accounts 2024 and the rest 2025 was correct. 

Can't believe they have left it this late, but then again they know the backlash. 

[myriad*seller]

I think they have been asking new sellers for NINOs recently, but yes, they have a LOT of information to gather now. 

It will be interesting to see what posts we get on the boards

Or will there be some issue where nothing happens.....?

[equinox-electronics]

We all know there is alot of undeclared income that will be revealed to hmrc from this. I'm all for it personally I pay my dues, will weed out the people that aren't 

[wyntersemporium]

Should also be fun when Hmrc loses people’s stats for the year. Like they’ve done with mine. I’ve to redo mine from 2023. Even though sent through electronically 

[theelench]

But probably not as many as you think, IMO.   A high proportion of businesses know exactly what they are doing and that trying to get away with not paying tax on their earnings is high risk.  So they will be fully compliant with HMRC. 

Just getting away with their ebay fees is much less risky but still gives them an advantage over other businesses who are paying ebay what they should be.

What is far more likely to happen is that large numbers of genuine private sellers will be frightened by any mention of HMRC and even more so if contact is made by HMRC and they will stop any attempt at selling.

Some others, like myself, with nothing to hide object to giving my NINO to an American company and will also stop selling when this becomes compulsory.

And as private sellers are also more likely to be buyers, correctly registered sellers, both private and business can look forward to even less sales without them.

[wyntersemporium]

I think it’s disgusting that anyone has to hand their NINO to anyone. Look at the V fiasco with some other eBay sellers going over there. 
I sell my own items over there. Just tidying out built in wardrobes and 3 loft spaces. 

[a45heaven]

from HMRC web site 27th Dec 2024

Keeping your National Insurance number safe

To prevent identity fraud, do not share your National Insurance number with anyone who does not need it.

These organisations may need to know what your number is:

• HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC)
• your employer
• the Department for Work and Pensions (which includes Jobcentre Plus and the Pension, Disability and Carers Service), if you claim state benefits, or in Northern Ireland the Department for Social Development
• your local council, if you claim Housing Benefit, or the Northern Ireland Housing Executive
• Electoral Registration Officers (to check your identity when you register to vote)
• the Student Loans Company, if you apply for a student loan
• your pension provider if you have a personal or stakeholder pension
• your Individual Savings Account (ISA) provider, if you open an ISA
• authorised financial service providers who help you buy and sell investments like shares, bonds and derivatives - you can check if your provider is authorised
• Veterans UK

[papso22]

Ebay is now one of those that needs it in order to comply with the reporting regulations.

HMRC makes that quite clear in their guidance on the regulations.   They have to match sales data to individuals,  that means the reporter using NINOs when they provide data.

[a45heaven]

HMRC makes that quite clear in their guidance on the regulations.  

have you a link to that on the official HMRC web site please?

What i pasted was from the HMRC web site.

[papso22]

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/reporting-rules-for-digital-platforms

Specifically:

What you need to collect

As a reporting platform operator, you will need to: 

• collect information about sellers on your platform
• collect information about any property listed on your platform (if applicable) 
• verify the information collected (known as ‘due diligence’) 
• identify reportable sellers

For individual sellers

You’ll need their:

• full name
• main address
• date of birth
• tax identification number (National Insurance number if they live in the UK)

[a45heaven]

As a reporting platform operator, you will need to: 

not me , i pay to use a platform, i am not an operator.

Other platforms i sell on have not mentioned the HMRC info requirement, so what ebay may collect, at best it will only be a partial view of the individuals business, so how does that add up?

Is this one of the regulations which ebay charge us for in the 'Regulatory Fee' , they have been reaping from us for months?

[theelench]

So after 75 years of waving a red flag and giving the same warning about Identity Fraud, it's suddenly reversed by someone in HMRC or the Treasury who I doubt very much has ever sold anything on-line so is not taking any risk with their own I.D.

There are other ways of doing this using other personal information that ebay already has.  The decision to use NINOs was made purely for the convenience of the platforms and HMRC without regard for the security of the private sellers that will have to hand it over.

Has the risk of Identity Fraud disappeared?  IMO it's a greater risk now than ever before, even without putting more private info. on-line where crooks seem to be able to obtain it quite regularly.

In the war against cyber-crime it's the equivalent of a general shouting "Charge" from the safety of their bunker well out of the firing-line, knowing that the casualties will be enormous among the cannon-fodder ordered into the firing line.  Most of whom will be totally innocent of evading any tax what-so-ever. 

[papso22]

Quite clearly that guidance is aimed at the likes of Ebay and others who qualify as reporting platforms under the Regulations.  

The other platforms you sell on either don't meet the definition of 'reporting platform' or are cutting it very fine.

A partial view is better than no view at all and actually helps sellers.

Ebay has not specifically listed the things covered by the Regulatory Fee but the timing of the fee and the scale of these reporting requirements makes it look as if this is indeed covered.

[theelench]

That's an interesting point,  any idea about how a platform qualifies as a "reporting platform under the regs."

Ebay presumably does as it handles sales proceeds and processes them to bank accounts?

Ebid possibly does not qualify as it doesn't handle sales proceeds at all.  It uses paypal as its integrated payment processor, but sellers are free to make other arrangements if they choose.

Neither ebid nor paypal have made me aware of any intention to collect my NINO or even made a generalised announcement to make me aware of the impending change to reporting regs.

[a45heaven]

and actually helps sellers.

Sorry how come a partial view of sales is useful?

Maybe it makes sellers aware of the details of profits (or lack of) on the platform, but i cant see other benefits.

When ebay muttered about this info releasing happening earlier in the year they said they would outline what precise info they would be handing over to HMRC , that has yet to materialise.

I for one struggle to follow what ebay shows in regard to financial info - the most recent being the breakdown of 'Refunds' being made to Buyers, which a mentor agreed was nonsense, but the Community Manager failed to follow up.

[kempseykate]

---

@a45heaven wrote:

and actually helps sellers.

Sorry how come a partial view of sales is useful?

Maybe it makes sellers aware of the details of profits (or lack of) on the platform, but i cant see other benefits.

When ebay muttered about this info releasing happening earlier in the year they said they would outline what precise info they would be handing over to HMRC , that has yet to materialise.

I for one struggle to follow what ebay shows in regard to financial info - the most recent being the breakdown of 'Refunds' being made to Buyers, which a mentor agreed was nonsense, but the Community Manager failed to follow up.

---

From the link that papso gave you earlier  this is the bit that explains what info will be passed on if you are a seller on ebay (or other online site):

Information you must give

Digital platform operators will ask you for certain details.

If you’re an individual seller, they’ll ask for your:

• full name
• address where you normally live
• date of birth
• tax identification number (National Insurance number if you live in the UK)

As an entity seller (such as a company), they’ll ask for your:

• legal business name
• main business address
• tax identification number (company registration number for a UK company)

They also need to know the country in which your tax identification number was issued.

If you sell as a UK partnership, they’ll need your partnership Unique Taxpayer Reference (UTR) — a reference number from HMRC.

If you rent property, they’ll need the address of each property for rent on the platform.

Platform operators may ask you for other information if they need it to register you on the platform, like a phone number or email address.

They may ask you for other details to help them to confirm your identity.

Reporting by platforms

Digital platform operators in the UK will report your details and your income from selling goods or services on their platform to HMRC. They need to collect this information yearly and send to HMRC by the following January.

For example, information collected about you between 1 January 2024 to 31 December 2024 will be reported to HMRC by 31 January 2025.

They will also give you a copy of the reported information. This can help if you have to make tax returns.

Your details will not be reported if you:

• make fewer than 30 sales of goods
• receive less than 2,000 euros (about £1,700) for those sales

HMRC will share your information with your country’s tax authority if you live in another country that follows these rules.

Selling online and paying tax

A platform reporting your details to HMRC does not automatically mean you owe tax.

To pay tax on the goods or services you sell online, you must either be:

• trading
• making a capital gain

You’re unlikely to pay tax if you sell personal items from your home, like contents of a loft or garage.

If you buy or make goods to sell at a profit, you’re likely to be trading and will have to pay tax on your profits.

[theelench]

I think @papso22  is referring to the situation I find myself in.

Ebay sales = 4.  Total value about £50.

Ebid sales = 28.  Total value about £400

It's helpful to me that in total I'm over the 30 items sold threshold, but neither platform will be reporting me to HMRC.

(Before anyone accuses me of being a business and splitting my sales to evade tax, I will be ending my selling on ebay rather than give them my NINO.   But I will be giving my NINO to ebid when asked and making that my only platform for selling my personal possessions on.)   

[leadhills_scot]

Although I've stopped selling, I've read on the Vinted website that they require your NI number and I'm sure others will get around to it at some point.

[a45heaven]

From the link that papso gave you earlier  this is the bit that explains what info will be passed on if you are a seller on ebay (or other online site):

So just a single profit figure then , none of the whitewash that ebay usually shows on their sheets.

It would be helpful to have some kind of breakdown so totals can be verified, its not like ebay are glitch free are they, and financial errors are shown to exist. 

[thesmokingrunner]

I genuinely don't know why some people are struggling with all this.

HMRC have introduced a requirement for online platforms to report sales above a given thresh-hold and whilst some of those whose sales information is passed on will have UTRs some will not; they will, however, all have NI Numbers and eBay has elected to use NI Numbers as quasi UTRs.

Whilst there are some users who, having flown under the radar for years thanks in part to eBay's lax controls on private/business sellers,  are probably seriously worried about getting 'caught' in a tax trap, genuine private sellers - those who sell a few bits and bobs - have nothing about which to be concerned, so the need to provide personal information should not be a problem.

The biggest potential issue is that of security and the possibility of identity theft. HMRC have UTRs/NI Nos, eBay does not, and eBay now requires NI Nos in order to pass sales data to HMRC. The question is: would you trust eBay to keep your NI No safe?

For me the question is irrelevant; my red line for selling was the introduction of MP and the requirement to hand over my bank account details to eBay. No chance - having had my eBay account hacked in 2020 there was no way I would trust eBay to hold any financial details and keep them secure.

Millions did, however, and seemed happy to let eBay have unfettered access to their bank accounts by signing an open-ended Direct Debit. So if sellers on eBay were happy to do that I really don't know why so many are now up in arms about handing over more personal information to the same company.

After all, it's going to be held securely. Isn't it?...