Hmrc reporting January 2025

Are we all ready for the avalanche of activity that this will bring next month on the forums.

Seems Ebay's wording at the beginning of the year on there announcement that only newly registered accounts 2024 and the rest 2025 was correct. 

Can't believe they have left it this late, but then again they know the backlash. 

 

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Hmrc reporting January 2025

For me it was a simple decision because with my personal security in mind, from day 1 of my on-line selling I had set-up a completely isolated bank account which I first linked to paypal (and still is) and when MP was introduced was then linked to ebay.

 

My NINO I see as rather different.  It's linked to 3 pensions, my employment and several savings accounts. Neither ebay nor paypal has ever had access to it.

Why it's a problem is that giving it to ebay gives them everything an I.D thief needs to steal my identity on one plate.

Neither do I trust ebay.uk not to transfer my personal info. to some sort of back-up storage in ebay.com which I doubt comes under UK Data Protection Law or even Jurisdiction.  Once there, who knows what ebay or its shadowy "partners" will do with it, particularly knowing how clever and underhanded ebay is when getting cash out of any and every situation that it can.

 

It's a question of trust and sadly I've been on ebay long enough to see them squander whatever trust I had in them, usually to make a quick $. 

 

As they say in Lidl "Once it's gone, it's gone" and that applies to my trust and my NINO.

 

As a separate point "Some will have a UTR, some will not".

And some will have a UTR but not being a business, will NOT be allowed to use it.   Which I think is grossly unfair because if I could it would shield my NINO from ebay but still fulfil the requirement to identify myself to HMRC who have both.

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Hmrc reporting January 2025


@theelench wrote:

That's an interesting point,  any idea about how a platform qualifies as a "reporting platform under the regs."

 

Ebay presumably does as it handles sales proceeds and processes them to bank accounts?

Ebid possibly does not qualify as it doesn't handle sales proceeds at all.  It uses paypal as its integrated payment processor, but sellers are free to make other arrangements if they choose.

Neither ebid nor paypal have made me aware of any intention to collect my NINO or even made a generalised announcement to make me aware of the impending change to reporting regs.

 

 


It's all set out in the definitions section of the Regulations, but it's not terribly clear.  In my view PayPal definitely don't qualify.  I think ebid, Facebook and Gumtree might do, Etsy definitely does, and so does ebay (obviously).

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Hmrc reporting January 2025

Thanks, I'm not going to give myself a head-ache even thinking about it, especially over Christmas.  I've made my decisions and until / unless more information becomes public, it is what it is.

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Hmrc reporting January 2025


@theelench wrote:

As a separate point "Some will have a UTR, some will not".

And some will have a UTR but not being a business, will NOT be allowed to use it.   Which I think is grossly unfair because if I could it would shield my NINO from ebay but still fulfil the requirement to identify myself to HMRC who have both.


I have a UTR myself and get your point absolutely; if I was still selling on this site I would have no issue with giving that to eBay for HMRC purposes.

 

eBay's "NI No only" requirement in order to meet online-platform-to-HMRC reporting may well prove to be a short-sighted solution - it really should not be beyond the wit of a capable programmer to code for either NI No or UTR - but given eBay's history with regard to programming solutions (EDDs, Searches, AI and so on) even if sellers were given the option to provide either there's a fairly high chance that eBay would guff it up.

 

As you point out, it's a question of trust. My trust in eBay went out the window years ago.

 

 

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Hmrc reporting January 2025

Etsy is demanding NINO and UTR, plus LUCID and the other European schemes (if you sell to Europe).

If you fail to provide the data before the close of 2024, your shop will be put into holiday mode and payments will be suspended.

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Hmrc reporting January 2025

Yes, it defo won’t be just eBay. This topic was discussed at great length before and I think the reason for having to have the NINO is that UTRs are only held by those who are already registered as self-employed.

I questioned why a name, address, bank account etc. (I.e. data already held) wasn’t sufficient and was told:

1/ HMRC need to account for all activity across all online platforms in assessing an individuals trading history. As this data is not necessarily identical across platforms (bank account could change) then another ‘certain’ identifier was required hence NINO.

2/ Particular to certain cultures within the UK, some multi-tiered families will have the same first and second names and share both address and bank accounts making it difficult to identify who is who.

So being certain that HMRC can pin the activity to each unique (to avoid the inevitable “it wasn’t me it was my brother, cousin, father etc.”) required the unique NINO.


My issue with No2 is those people will also likely be sharing a selling account so still not sure that HMRC will be able to unravel it but it might force them to have their own accounts I suppose?

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Hmrc reporting January 2025


@555njp wrote:


My issue with No2 is those people will also likely be sharing a selling account so still not sure that HMRC will be able to unravel it but it might force them to have their own accounts I suppose?


Yes, many accounts on ebay are 'family' accounts, or 'couple' accounts. My OH opened an account years ago, but then it just became easier to have the one account. So now on this ID I sell items that were his, items that were mine, a few that were our daughters and some that belonged to my late bro-in-law. So HMRC will see that I have sold £x, when in fact only half the stuff was mine, the rest was other family members.

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Hmrc reporting January 2025

Same as most private sellers I imagine. 
I sell all sorts of family cast offs on mine! If HMRC were to investigate, it would be pretty obvious that this was the case but I could show the corresponding electronic transfers out of my bank account to each family member with eBay sale(s) as the title as well, so in theory at least, it does have some kind of audit trail 😂


Just my opinion, I think HMRC will be well aware many families are doing this and there is nothing wrong with it.

They’ll be more interested in the high volume sellers that appear to be trading to ensure they are declaring their income.

I suspect the sales threshold will be initially set fairly high too, otherwise even if tax is owed, it won’t we worth the resources to recover it?

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Hmrc reporting January 2025

I first joined eBay in late 2004... I've been selling my stuff on eBay since the summer of 2007...

 

My sales have been quite good until about 2021 then they slowed right down to the odd couple of items selling once in a blue moon (every 4-6 weeks)

 

This year (from Jan 2024 till now - December 2024) has been very slow, but even though I've had a year of very slow/poor sales I have a gut feeling that I might have sold just under 30 items... but I may have accidentally gone over the £1,700 limit set by HMRC...

 

I am now wondering/worried what will happen now in Jan 2025 when eBay starts reporting everyone to HMRC ?

 

I am only poor guy and a carer to my disabled 80 year old mum, so can't afford to just hand them over thousands of pounds for all my years of selling my own stuff privately on eBay... I have only known about this reporting to HMRC since December of  2023 and this law only was made clear online from then onwards...  

 

If I have accidentally breached the £1,700 boundary from Jan 2024 to Jan 2025 I am happy to complete a self assessment and pay what tax I owe for this year (if any)... I am just worried and very concerned that they could force/make demands for me to pay them for all the 17 years of eBay sales money tax on whatever little sales I did do to now...

 

I feel that this would be very unfair/unreasonable as for all that time from the summer of 2007 to December of 2023 I did not know about these laws and tax obligations as a private seller and I thought/believed  that all private UK sellers were tax exempt under the £12,000 yearly income rule if they are unemployed ?

 

So to the best of my knowledge  I believe that I did not do anything wrong and just sold stuff over the years to help buy household things, pay bills and buy the stuff I wanted from eBay as a treat without breaking the bank !

 

If anyone else is in a similar situation to this.. what are your thoughts ?.. what will happen next ?.. 

 

Any insight would be greatly appreciated as my stomach is now churning with so much worry !  😞    

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Hmrc reporting January 2025

As a private seller you shouldn’t be happy to submit a tax return, I don’t really get that.

 

If you get any state benefits and suddenly submit a tax return for an income you haven’t declared for benefit calculations it may come back to bite you.

 

I wouldn’t say this if you were really trading, but as a genuine private seller you shouldn’t be concerned about it.

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Hmrc reporting January 2025

Thanks for your reassurance !  🙂

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Hmrc reporting January 2025

According to both HMRC and DWP/Jobcentre etc if you are just selling your own pre-owned stuff it is not a problem - it isn't considered income for benefits and isn't taxable either.  If you are buying things to sell then it is considered trading and therefore profits counts towards your tax for HMRC and earned income for DWP.  I have checked this out more than once and been told the same thing each time.  So if you are just selling your own stuff then there should be nothing to worry about even if you have gone over those reporting thresholds 🙂

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Hmrc reporting January 2025

I’m no expert, but I do think you will be ok as you appear to be a collector rather than trader.

You can check your total sales on eBay by the way by filtering your sales for “this year”. It gives you both the number and value of sales.

 

As I understand it, you collect old locks which you find interesting and this is something you have done for years?

Therefore you can legitimately say you buy locks for your collection, keep them a while then sell them on. Sometimes you make a little bit on them, sometimes you don’t right?

HMRC say that providing you buy something and keep it long enough to derive pleasure of ownership before selling it on then you are a private seller just selling your personal items and not a trader who is purely buying to sell and therefore turning over items more quickly.

The typical ownership period they use to measure this is 6 months.

In addition to this, you are perfectly entitled to sell your (and your mums) personal household items that you no longer need, want etc.

 

Unless you’ve sold several thousand pounds worth of your collection, chances are you will not hear anything from HMRC.

Even if you do, they will likely just send you a letter saying something along the lines of “we have been made aware via eBay that for the period 1/1/24 - 31/12/2024 you have sold a total of 35 items for which you have received income to the value of £2,000. Can you please tick the box below to confirm whether these sales were personal items belonging to you, items sold in the course of a business or a combination of both”.

I.e. they will ask you to declare if you are trading or not.

You then tick the box saying these were personal items and sign to that effect and that should be the end of it. 
Obviously, HMRC can request more information or, if they think you aren’t being honest they can investigate further or go back over prior years, but remember the eBay detail will show exactly what the 35 items are.

If these were say 29 different locks, a couple of DVDs, a few clothes etc. it would be pretty obvious you are not trading. If however it was 35 brand new exact same items then they may want to dig deeper but not necessarily.
You could put a note in with the letter explaining that you collect locks and have this year sold 29 that you no longer want but plan to buy more.
But it doesn’t matter, you are not trading.

 

Regarding your tax position. You can indeed earn £12,570 without having to pay tax in the current tax year and that threshold has been the same for a while now.

Any income over that amount will be subject to 20% tax and 40% on anything above £50,270.

Your taxable income will include pensions, benefits, carers allowance, wages and online selling in the course of a business (not personal items) plus income from savings/investment (interest) over £1000 if a lower rate tax payer, £500 as a higher rate taxpayer, but HMRC get that info direct from banks/building societies and will inform you if you owe anything separately.
You wouldn’t normally need to do a tax return just for investment interest.

 

The only thing to be aware of is if in previous years you were actually trading as opposed to collecting, as soon as you had sales of over £1000 you should have registered as self employed and filled in a tax return for each of those years, even if you had no other income.
The return would pull together all your income including benefits but, if this total was under £12,570 you still would not owe any tax (or National Insurance).

 

Hope that helps a bit and I haven’t confused you more? 

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Hmrc reporting January 2025


@5216elisabeth wrote:

According to both HMRC and DWP/Jobcentre etc if you are just selling your own pre-owned stuff it is not a problem - it isn't considered income for benefits and isn't taxable either.  If you are buying things to sell then it is considered trading and therefore profits counts towards your tax for HMRC and earned income for DWP.  I have checked this out more than once and been told the same thing each time.  So if you are just selling your own stuff then there should be nothing to worry about even if you have gone over those reporting thresholds 🙂


Yes, you not only beat me to it, but summed up it up perfectly 👍👍

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Hmrc reporting January 2025

 


@5216elisabeth wrote:

According to both HMRC and DWP/Jobcentre etc if you are just selling your own pre-owned stuff it is not a problem - it isn't considered income for benefits and isn't taxable either.  If you are buying things to sell then it is considered trading and therefore profits counts towards your tax for HMRC and earned income for DWP.  I have checked this out more than once and been told the same thing each time.  So if you are just selling your own stuff then there should be nothing to worry about even if you have gone over those reporting thresholds 🙂


Thanks so much for confirming this ! - It's very reassuring now that another board member is also saying the same thing !  😁

 

I'm just off to bed now... At least I'll now sleep well tonight !  😎

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Hmrc reporting January 2025


@555njp wrote:

I’m no expert, but I do think you will be ok as you appear to be a collector rather than trader.

You can check your total sales on eBay by the way by filtering your sales for “this year”. It gives you both the number and value of sales.

 

As I understand it, you collect old locks which you find interesting and this is something you have done for years?

Therefore you can legitimately say you buy locks for your collection, keep them a while then sell them on. Sometimes you make a little bit on them, sometimes you don’t right?

HMRC say that providing you buy something and keep it long enough to derive pleasure of ownership before selling it on then you are a private seller just selling your personal items and not a trader who is purely buying to sell and therefore turning over items more quickly.

The typical ownership period they use to measure this is 6 months.

In addition to this, you are perfectly entitled to sell your (and your mums) personal household items that you no longer need, want etc.

 

Unless you’ve sold several thousand pounds worth of your collection, chances are you will not hear anything from HMRC.

Even if you do, they will likely just send you a letter saying something along the lines of “we have been made aware via eBay that for the period 1/1/24 - 31/12/2024 you have sold a total of 35 items for which you have received income to the value of £2,000. Can you please tick the box below to confirm whether these sales were personal items belonging to you, items sold in the course of a business or a combination of both”.

I.e. they will ask you to declare if you are trading or not.

You then tick the box saying these were personal items and sign to that effect and that should be the end of it. 
Obviously, HMRC can request more information or, if they think you aren’t being honest they can investigate further or go back over prior years, but remember the eBay detail will show exactly what the 35 items are.

If these were say 29 different locks, a couple of DVDs, a few clothes etc. it would be pretty obvious you are not trading. If however it was 35 brand new exact same items then they may want to dig deeper but not necessarily.
You could put a note in with the letter explaining that you collect locks and have this year sold 29 that you no longer want but plan to buy more.
But it doesn’t matter, you are not trading.

 

Regarding your tax position. You can indeed earn £12,570 without having to pay tax in the current tax year and that threshold has been the same for a while now.

Any income over that amount will be subject to 20% tax and 40% on anything above £50,270.

Your taxable income will include pensions, benefits, carers allowance, wages and online selling in the course of a business (not personal items) plus income from savings/investment (interest) over £1000 if a lower rate tax payer, £500 as a higher rate taxpayer, but HMRC get that info direct from banks/building societies and will inform you if you owe anything separately.
You wouldn’t normally need to do a tax return just for investment interest.

 

The only thing to be aware of is if in previous years you were actually trading as opposed to collecting, as soon as you had sales of over £1000 you should have registered as self employed and filled in a tax return for each of those years, even if you had no other income.
The return would pull together all your income including benefits but, if this total was under £12,570 you still would not owe any tax (or National Insurance).

 

Hope that helps a bit and I haven’t confused you more? 


Thanks so much 555 for chiming in and also reassuring me... I was very worried these last few weeks after my last 3 December 2024 eBay sales came... after many weeks of nothing !... As I lost track how much money I got for all my eBay private sales this past year and was worried that those last 3 sales might have tipped me over the edge ! with regard to that £1,700 max selling limit 😞

 

Even with hardly any sales, when they do happen over a year... It is very easy to reach that max limit without knowing as I don't always keep accounts/records off hand... I just rely on eBay to tell me what I've sold for the last few mouths... 🤔 

 

Good night all... and thanks everyone for all your help & reassurance !  🙂  

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Hmrc reporting January 2025

I always post my sales at the post office and pay over the counter, they give me a receipt with the Reference Number on it and I add the Listing title in case there is a dispute over delivery.

 

Since we became aware that HMRC might have questions if they think we are Trading I've started adding some basics to the back of the receipt.

 

The sale price, ebay fees, paypal fees, listing fees and FVF fees where applicable.  Hopefully I'll never need to use them !!

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Hmrc reporting January 2025


@theelench wrote:

I always post my sales at the post office and pay over the counter, they give me a receipt with the Reference Number on it and I add the Listing title in case there is a dispute over delivery.

 

Since we became aware that HMRC might have questions if they think we are Trading I've started adding some basics to the back of the receipt.

 

The sale price, ebay fees, paypal fees, listing fees and FVF fees where applicable.  Hopefully I'll never need to use them !!


That's a very good idea Elench... Wish I was as bright as you ! 🙄

 

I'm one of those people who never write anything down or keep records for long   😞

 

The whole concept of eBay lately since the new seller hub and managed payments has become more business oriented and in some cases, well beyond the scope of the average non business trained public/private seller just selling a few bits every now and then...

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Hmrc reporting January 2025

I have a back-ground in local authority accounts and statistics, more recently 30 years experience of self-employment and SA tax returns.

Meticulous record keeping has become ingrained into my brain.  Especially when dealing with HMRC, it's always better to be safe than sorry.

 

Mind you, the more I think about HMRC trying to say someone in my position has been trading, rather than collecting, raises in my mind a rather big question.

 

If I was trading then surely my collection becomes my 'stock' and acquiring it must be tax deductible?  Without records surely even HMRC would have to allow a "reasonable" second-hand value, which coincidentally would be what it sold for on ebay?  

 

I think next year will be a can of worms, the govt. is already unpopular for taking the WFA off millions of pensioners.  It isn't going to make them any more popular if the press starts reporting growing numbers of OAPs being dragged into court because they can't dis-prove allegations that their life-time collection wasn't, in fact, a tax evading business venture.  

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Hmrc reporting January 2025

Great, informative post Elench  🙂

 

It certainly pays to have such experience to hand.

 

Yes, Quite, this government is now very unpopular taking away OAP's winter fuel payments and hiking every other tax they can think of !

 

There is certainly an online petition somewhere with almost 3 million votes to oust Labour via a No Confidence Vote ! as they are not doing what they had promised before they were voted in.  😞

 

I think this is due for debate on 06th January 2025...

 

Anyway... Here's to a happy and healthy 2025 for everyone  😎😎😎 

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