GPSR Compliance

[bojangled]

This is as clear as mud to me. Been to the gov. advice website and various others.
How does a 1972 poster fit in to this process?

It's not an exempt category. 

Advise buyers this item is for viewing only ? 

My initial reaction, sadly, to to switch EU and NI off. 
Jo

[jonatjonatjonat]

try amazon. Over there they've decided that you don't need to supply any information on Amazon UK because its outside the EU -despite the fact it applies in NI where you can't even stop selling if you do FBA!

having looked at ebays approach - it at least seems to mostly make sense. I think you'll likely find very few companies seem to understand the rules fully - its a huge EU document in legalese after all. Their interpretation seems to make sense - though there are always going to be outlier cases that are impacted negatively

[4_bathrooms]

---

@sunshine_radio_control wrote:

And to know that our listings will be hidden, thus even less sales than I am already experiencing this year made my heart sink even lower than usual when it comes to eBay and their daft ideas.

It wasn't eBay's idea - it was the EU Commission's; every online marketplace will have to comply.

You should probably be aware that when the Product Regulation and Metrology Bill eventually becomes an Act there will likely be a "GPSR-lite" for sales to Great Britain. 

[555njp]

---

@4_bathrooms wrote:

You should probably be aware that when the Product Regulation and Metrology Bill eventually becomes an Act there will likely be a "GPSR-lite" for sales to Great Britain. 

---

Or, the end of on-line selling as we know it today, although eBay themselves will likely destroy it first if they introduce a buyer's premium next year!

[ojewellery]

I can't pretend to have read all the bill but I've started on the explanatory notes.  I like the idea that's in the bill that marketplaces should have to make it clear for buyers to understand who they're buying from.  This is an issue I have buying off eBay.  I want to know that I'm buying goods from a UK seller who will supply a VAT invoice, who is (likely) paying their taxes and who would be traceable should there be any issue.

@4_bathrooms  You're usually well ontop of these things.  Are there any gruesom bits that are likely to cause future headaches, or is it just extra admin?

[4_bathrooms]

---

@ojewellery wrote:

I like the idea that's in the bill that marketplaces should have to make it clear for buyers to understand who they're buying from.  This is an issue I have buying off eBay.  I want to know that I'm buying goods from a UK seller who will supply a VAT invoice, who is (likely) paying their taxes and who would be traceable should there be any issue.

---

You can already do this. A VAT registered seller is obliged to display their VAT number online and HMRC hold eBay responsible for ensuring they do. As a VAT-registered business the thing that really irks me on eBay is there being no option for a VAT registered business to view net selling prices. There should be an option that appears when a VAT-registered business selects the "Business seller" search filter (i.e. "Only show net selling prices"). If a non-VAT registered business seller is offering an item for £129.99 and a VAT registered seller is offering the same item for £139.20 (inc. VAT) I would obviously rather purchase from the latter seller as the actual cost to me is £116.00. There is currently no way I can sort by price and see what the cheapest price actually is without clicking into each listing. In fact, I'd settle for net and gross prices displayed together with sorting by price possible by net or gross amount.

---

@ojewellery wrote:

Are there any gruesom bits that are likely to cause future headaches, or is it just extra admin?

---

From what I've read so far it is essentially a GB rehash of the EU's GPSR. There are elements that apply to the entire UK and elements that don't apply to NI due to NI being in the EU's customs union. The full details are still being debated but the impact assessment (PDF file) is probably a more telling read than the explanatory notes. 

[ett1954]

That impact assessment is an interesting read and certainly outlines the need for some regulation; especially for online marketplaces.  In fact it could be considered that some online platforms have helped dig their own graves due to the lack of regulation they have exercised on their platforms.

Of course the danger is that the regulation will now be 'over the top' due to some of the alarming examples provided on that impact assessment.

[ojewellery]

It'd be lovely if say one of the more reputable online marketplaces created a voluntary code of conduct for marketplaces, pre-empted the act and kept the administrative burden low.  Whilst getting (other) marketplaces to acknowledge they have a responsibility

[4_bathrooms]

---

@ett1954 wrote:

In fact it could be considered that some online platforms have helped dig their own graves due to the lack of regulation they have exercised on their platforms.

---

I won't argue with that. Not only have online marketplaces failed to self-regulate where product safety is concerned they have actively refused to do so; eBay's "seller assumes all responsibility" disclaimer is one example of that. It was inevitable online marketplaces would end up being regulated and the EU (with the UK soon to follow) saw an opportunity to enagage in a bit of market protectionism as a result. Who seriously believes something like a book, DVD, birthday card or a poster needs someone employed to be a "responsible person" for that product's safety? Yet that will be the case for any business selling such items into the EU from December. 

[555njp]

And it's fine for new products, but 90% of sellers online are unauthorised resellers.

Basically, whilst the intent to protect consumers (by testing new products and ensuring manufacturers deliver a safe product to market) is absolutely right, as soon as a product passes through a reseller, either as new, refurbished or used, the OEM will no longer accept responsibility for any failure in the field. So sighting the OEM in any paperwork becomes meaningless.

This is why if you purchase a "New" product via one of these resellers, you are wholly reliant on the good will of the seller to honour any guarantee offered, as the OEM certainly will not be interested unless you've purchased it via one of their authorised stockists.

If the regs intend to control the product beyond its initial release to market and hold the OEM responsible for it then you will have to allow the manufacturers to dictate how their products are sold. This would wipe out the likes of eBay overnight!

Moreover it could lead to a situation where used products simply would not be saleable so would wind up in land fill.

Yes I'm very cynical, but to me this isn't about safety, it's about unfairly controlling the existing online consumer market place and dictating what consumers can buy and from who.

[4_bathrooms]

---

@555njp wrote:

Basically, whilst the intent to protect consumers (by testing new products and ensuring manufacturers deliver a safe product to market) is absolutely right, as soon as a product passes through a reseller, either as new, refurbished or used, the OEM will no longer accept responsibility for any failure in the field. So sighting the OEM in any paperwork becomes meaningless.

This is why if you purchase a "New" product via one of these resellers, you are wholly reliant on the good will of the seller to honour any guarantee offered, as the OEM certainly will not be interested unless you've purchased it via one of their authorised stockists.

---

Manufacturer guarantees and warranties are separate to product safety. Guarantees and warranties cover things like manufacturing defects, faulty workmanship, expected product lifetime etc. and only the original retail purchaser will typically be able to make a claim against one. Many manufacturers require either the original retail receipt or a form to be completed within a specified period of time following purchase to serve as proof of purchase, to establish the guarantee/warranty period and for supply chain identification purposes.

If the product requires a CE mark (for example) the Declaration of Conformity identifies the manufacturer and model number the DoC applies to. The DoC only becomes invalid if the product has been altered, damaged or otherwise not repaired to a condition that would keep it conformant with whatever standard it is required to meet. Businesses that sell used toys (for example) are legally responsible for ensuring the products they sell still meet the BS EN 71 standard they met when new. This isn't new legislation; it has always been the case. 

[555njp]

---

@4_bathrooms wrote:

---

@555njp wrote:

Basically, whilst the intent to protect consumers (by testing new products and ensuring manufacturers deliver a safe product to market) is absolutely right, as soon as a product passes through a reseller, either as new, refurbished or used, the OEM will no longer accept responsibility for any failure in the field. So sighting the OEM in any paperwork becomes meaningless.

This is why if you purchase a "New" product via one of these resellers, you are wholly reliant on the good will of the seller to honour any guarantee offered, as the OEM certainly will not be interested unless you've purchased it via one of their authorised stockists.

---

Manufacturer guarantees and warranties are separate to product safety. Guarantees and warranties cover things like manufacturing defects, faulty workmanship, expected product lifetime etc. and only the original retail purchaser will typically be able to make a claim against one. Many manufacturers require either the original retail receipt or a form to be completed within a specified period of time following purchase to serve as proof of purchase, to establish the guarantee/warranty period and for supply chain identification purposes.

Correct, that was my point. 

If the product requires a CE mark (for example) the Declaration of Conformity identifies the manufacturer and model number the DoC applies to. The DoC only becomes invalid if the product has been altered, damaged or otherwise not repaired to a condition that would keep it conformant with whatever standard it is required to meet. 

---

And that is the problem. As soon as a reseller gets hold of an item (factory second maybe?) they will open it up and conduct a repair which may not conform with the original spec.

Therefore the OEM has an out against any claim (same as they do with warranty) and it is notoriously difficult (often impossible) to prove who is negligent in court, especially as the product may have passed through several hands before coming to market.

eBay cannot control what is being offered for sale (the quality of the product etc.) beyond the new product declaration of conformity or the presence of a CE mark.

Used items are ten times worse as various owners could have effected an unsafe repair or used sub-standard parts to effect a repair before moving the item on.
Short of holding the last reseller wholly accountable for checking that every product sold still meets conformity (as I had to in the used car trade) then the process will not work.

Most online resellers would not have either the knowledge or equipment to fully test every product before selling it on so would quickly disappear.

Sounds to me like the legislation goes too far by trying to take all of the risk out of buying a used or refurbished product which in reality is just not feasible?

But that's just my view.

[camerapartsuk]

I haven't been selling to the EU and NI for just over a month now. My sales have dropped around £200-300 by not selling to those areas.

I used to sell quite a bit to those countries so it is an annoyance to me, but I have started to sell a bit more to the UK.

I also still sell to the rest of the world, but have definitely seen a drop on sales addressed to GSP in Lichfield.

[lens-sage]

"but I have started to sell a bit more to the UK"

Intersting, and something I suspected may happen, at least to some extent. 

Makes me wonder if the "algoritms" allow a certain amount of sales/exposure to any given seller, so if EU and NI get turned off, it just starts to get made up from other territories....

I guess it depends whether sales naturally find their own level of there is some kind of influence/glass ceiling. 

All a bit foil hat and speculative, though, of course!

Have you looked into the loophole ebay mention on their own GPSR page that items already available to the EU markey prior to December are exempt?

Are do you prefer to err on the side of caution due to ebay pulling people's listings already, despite it not yet being in effect and despite the fact any lisiting currently on ebay should technically be exempt as per ebay's own GPSR page?

[4_bathrooms]

---

@555njp wrote:

---

If the product requires a CE mark (for example) the Declaration of Conformity identifies the manufacturer and model number the DoC applies to. The DoC only becomes invalid if the product has been altered, damaged or otherwise not repaired to a condition that would keep it conformant with whatever standard it is required to meet. 

---

And that is the problem. As soon as a reseller gets hold of an item (factory second maybe?) they will open it up and conduct a repair which may not conform with the original spec.

Therefore the OEM has an out against any claim (same as they do with warranty) and it is notoriously difficult (often impossible) to prove who is negligent in court, especially as the product may have passed through several hands before coming to market...

...Short of holding the last reseller wholly accountable for checking that every product sold still meets conformity (as I had to in the used car trade) then the process will not work.

---

That is exactly how it works legally; if the product is being resold the reseller is wholly liable for the safety of the product including ensuring any conformity with requisite EN standards (for example). I have no idea what additional checks eBay will employ for goods requiring a CE mark that are sold as anything other than being in "new" condition; I suspect none if the seller can provide the original DoC and the EU-established responsible person identified within it. 

[4_bathrooms]

---

@camerapartsuk wrote:

I used to sell quite a bit to those countries so it is an annoyance to me, but I have started to sell a bit more to the UK.

Out of curiosity who tends to be your competition where the GB market is concerned? Is it other GB-established sellers or sellers who are established outside GB?

[technthread]

I listed a football shirt for sale just now on the eBay app, went back into it to double check something and got the error message below. (It let me view the item on the second attempt).

[555njp]

Where are you based? Looks to me like eBay are testing blocking software in readiness for GPSR?

A few weeks ago, it wouldn't let me list at all. I had to change my shipping preferences to remove EU & NI (on all listings) before I could do so.

Even now I'm still getting the "get your listings ready for GPSR before Dec 13th" Orange banner....

[technthread]

North West England. 

I listed a dozen or so shirts this morning and once I set them live I clicked into the listings to double check I had edited my photos properly and the postage settings are correct. It's just an OCD habit I have even though the draft is double checked anyway...

I only got that pop up message one time, I had the same thought that I had got a peek at the GPSR block message we will be hearing about a lot more in future.

I haven't turned off NI or EU yet (except Germany due to their packaging act).

[trevcald]

I have decieded after 10yrs of selling i no longer supply to EU and NI I also dont sell to kids under 36 Months old cos apparently self adhesive stickers of any kind are an unsafe product with small moving parts according to the AI program that ebay is using to monitor listings- taken to the fact most of my sales are for this age group this will be my last year of selling on eBay.

[beckyt21]

Does it only apply to buisness sellers or private sellers too - I got a warning messsge on something I have sold which is a vintage soft toy out of the loft! It's going to NI...