GPSR Compliance

[bojangled]

This is as clear as mud to me. Been to the gov. advice website and various others.
How does a 1972 poster fit in to this process?

It's not an exempt category. 

Advise buyers this item is for viewing only ? 

My initial reaction, sadly, to to switch EU and NI off. 
Jo

[whiteescargot]

At least the bananas are bendy again.

[giftgrab]

So this morning....

"If you’re a business seller listing new and second-hand products that are in scope of the GPSR in the EU and Northern Ireland, you’ll need to include the following information in your listings:"

"Once the GPSR takes effect, non-compliant listings may be hidden from buyers in the European Union (EU) and Northern Ireland."

1 - current hidden listings hidden from GB/EU/NI, in fact hidden from everyone (doesn't match what they are saying)

2- if we are not listing in scope of EU/NI then we don't need GPSR and should be safe, but they are not telling us this? 

With each and every update we still can't get the actual answer we need?!?!

[planet78]

"Once the GPSR takes effect, non-compliant listings may be hidden from buyers in the European Union (EU) and Northern Ireland."

This is the approach Amazon are taking, but with a "will" rather than a "may":

"If GSPR info is missing, we will only restrict shipping to northern Ireland addresses (not remove the offer)."

[cooksongold]

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@planet78 wrote:

"Once the GPSR takes effect, non-compliant listings may be hidden from buyers in the European Union (EU) and Northern Ireland."

This is the approach Amazon are taking, but with a "will" rather than a "may":

"If GSPR info is missing, we will only restrict shipping to northern Ireland addresses (not remove the offer)."

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@planet78 wrote:

"Once the GPSR takes effect, non-compliant listings may be hidden from buyers in the European Union (EU) and Northern Ireland."

This is the approach Amazon are taking, but with a "will" rather than a "may":

"If GSPR info is missing, we will only restrict shipping to northern Ireland addresses (not remove the offer)."

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Where have amazon said that? As all they refer to is for Amazon UK, no information needs to be provided. Though their policy page also states GPSR applies to Northern Ireland?

[planet78]

I don't expect I can link to it here but it was a reply from Amazon seller support (I know) that someone posted on their version of this forum.

[cooksongold]

yeah, I'm on those forums. I'd not seen it. I'd seen someone say that Amazon Seller Support had told them that - but I wouldn't trust amazon seller support to tell me what colour the sun is frankly.

[tascio1]

And this is what happens when I decide to remove NI from my postage destinations! Message from an ebayer as follows (has never bought anything from me):

Dave is a rather unintelligent scaremounger who seems to have a problem with Northern Ireland being part of the UK. Please ignore him . So far I've been in contact with Trading Standards and Customs and Excise
regarding the above post. Investigations are underway.Please be aware there are no additional costs to post to Northern Ireland. Please share Dave's racism on Social media

Have obviously been in touch with CS & it has gone as a high level complaint!

[ojewellery]

All I can find is as you say, a thread were someone says seller support said...  Not really concrete enough to run a business by.

The thread is: 

GSPR - UK & NI

The post:

[cooksongold]

Thanks - that is the one I had seen. Until its on that policy page though - I wouldn't trust it like you say.

And amazon seem very unwilling to affirm their stance on Northern Ireland.

[4_bathrooms]

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@tascio1 wrote:

So far I've been in contact with Trading Standards and Customs and Excise
regarding the above post. Investigations are underway.

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Customs and Excise ceased to exist in 2005 when they were merged with Inland Revenue to form HMRC. Also, anyone trying to contact Trading Standards would likely be pointed in the direction of Citizen's Advice as Trading Standards no longer deals with consumer complaints directly. You can ignore anything this person has told you; I'd advise adding them to your blocked bidder list. No doubt they'll summons you to the High Court when you do and demand that you're hung, drawn and quartered for your treachery... 

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@tascio1 wrote:

Please be aware there are no additional costs to post to Northern Ireland.

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There will be. Whilst Royal Mail (including Parcelforce) will not be charging any extra many businesses will have extra overheads if they continue to sell to Northern Ireland due to the requirements of the GPSRs under the Windsor Framework and/or having to employ an EU-established responsible person. Northern Ireland has a population of ~1.9 million; the UK as a whole has a population of ~67 million. Northern Ireland therefore comprises about 2.8% of the UK population - many small GB-based businesses are therefore going to take the financial decision to exclude Northern Ireland from the locations they are willing to ship to.

[messier44000]

Has this now been delayed ?

From P2G this morning

The UK Government has announced a change to the Windsor Framework deadline, extending the implementation date from 30th September 2024 to 31st March 2025. This extension gives businesses and customers more time to prepare for the upcoming changes in shipping parcels to Northern Ireland.

[cooksongold]

As I understood it, the Windsor Framework is not in and of itself tied to GPSR - which would still be enacted in December.

I think how GPSR is handled in NI is due to the Windsor Framework - but they are separate things.

[planet78]

Yes, that's the one I saw.

Whilst I accept what you say about Amazon SS usually being a complete waste of time I thought this reply was unusual in that it wasn't a load of unrelated cut and paste nonsense and it actually answered the question.

[dwtrading2015]

Just had the eBay email again asking for details for GPSR to be added to listings.  No listings are flagged and it seems eBay is expecting every item to have all the information despite there being a limited classification requiring it.  This is a nonsense, most of the required information doesn't exist. 

I buy bulk via online retailer, there is no 'manufacturer' information.  There are no user instructions or safety sheets.  Whoever designed these regulations hasn't any understanding of how the sale of goods chain works.  Factories bang out high volumes of widgets which warehouse stockist sell on in reduced bulk quantities to smaller wholesale outlets who then sell to end users.  The original widget maybe branded, rebranded or unbranded along the chain.  The connection to the original factory is lost in the chain and often the final product is assembled from multiple widgets from varying and variable sources.  Many final products do not have a ‘manufacturer’ or any particular instructions.  And for second hand items, such documents and original packaging are long gone. 

I cannot see how this system can possible operate.  I can now see why eBay has not bothered lobbying to change this, for the vast majority of eBay sellers they will never be able to fulfil the requirements and therefore the EU market is simply lost.  So no pointing wasting money trying to keep access to a lost market.

 What is most troubling to me is that in the listing space for all this, the headline states "Provide more details about your item’s safety and quality standards if you post to buyers in the EU/UK."

The UK?  If eBay is going to try and impose an EU rule on UK sellers selling within the UK, then they should expect 80-90% of all listings to be ended immediately on 13th December 2024.  That is aside from the ethics of imposing EU law on UK to UK transactions despite the UK supposedly having left the EU and not having any legal obligation to adopt EU laws.  That would be eBay acting to impose EU law on UK sellers in a quasi-judicial manner, totally inappropriate.

[cooksongold]

They are clear - if you don't have manufacturer information - then you'd need to identify or appoint a responsible person that is based in the EU/NI. While you might think it nonesense - there would be a way for you to adhere to the rules if you wish to still sell into the EU/NI.

I assume they have stated UK as it does include Northern Ireland, so technically if you are listing there, it by rule would include all the UK. I would hope using the term UK might be an oversight more than a forceful error.

[zancoindustrialautomation]

Myself and others have called them and they have not any clue about what
minimum requirements are needed to carry on listsing

Come December 13th you will see eBay absoukteky *bleep* themselves when
thousands of users shut their shop down and their income falls in millions
and millions of pounds of revenue .

This has not been thought through by eBay and the EU wants to dictate what
the UK can do ….

People who sell things to the EU market may as well shut their shop or see
what happens as eBay will have shot themselves in the foot with this one

Amazon have done the same but they have other platforms like Prime and so
on so there income is ok

EBay Uk income for them will take a nose dive and it will serve themselves
right

The country will not allow small businesses to grow and make money and just
get things taken away from them including taxes on top of taxes etc ……
there’s only one winner with this GPSR bull*bleep* and that’s the EU and
starker wants to get back in with them

The working class people have no hope of a chance to make a decent living
anymore

Car boot sales and markets will be gone one day as cash will be gone

The country is F *****D

[sparecycle]

I can't believe that destruction of used items market is going by unnoticed. Buyers from EU or any voters etc who could have had influence on this won't find out until months after eBay market in EU collapses.

[zancoindustrialautomation]

Yes definitely

The whole of eBay uk and eu will just disappear but the sad thing is that
1000s of companies will too

[pal_version]

most people i have spoken to about this have just decided they will turn off shipments to the EU and NI when that date kicks in.

the daft thing is that if someone from those terratories really want your item they will find a way around they system - like opening a UK account and having one of those private frieght forwading companies as their address. 

its not a great scenrio but very little can be done becuase eBay very rarely reverse a decision and we all know what the EU government are like about rules.

[4_bathrooms]

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@ojewellery wrote:

He categorically stated that under the Windsor Framework, carriers like Royal Mail and all other carriers, are going to require our TSS account number to be able to continue shipping on our behalf to NI.  The extent of other paperwork, when/ how its submitted could vary by carrier.  

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This is also what they told me however I'm no longer sure their advice is correct. NICTA - the online support service for the TSS - had a page detailing how GB businesses selling to consumers in NI needed to register with the TSS and the UKC to use the green lane. The page now 404s so I'm going to have to find it on the Wayback Machine in order to prove I wasn't just blowing that advice out of my own backside!

The TSS also advised they would be responsible for the safety of goods being moved from GB to NI but as I now understand it this has absolutely nothing to do with GPSR requirements. They were solely referring to the entry summary declaration (ENS) which has a declaration box but this is concerned with things that absolutely should not be carried by Royal Mail nor a courier such as firearms, explosives, hazardous/radioactive substances etc. I'm pretty sure @maggna is correct and the TSS will not be able to provide the role of a NI responsible person.

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@ojewellery wrote:

He also recommended signing up to  UKIMS (UK Internal Market Scheme) as this will reduce paperwork and the scheme is being inundated with late applications.  I'm awaiting more information on this.

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UKIMS and it's predecessor (UK Trader Scheme) are mostly concerned with B2B supplies where the receiving business will be supplying NI consumers (i.e. wholesalers). GB businesses directly supplying end-consumers in NI should not need to register with UKIMS as the necessary entry summary declaration should be made by the carrier involved.

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@ojewellery wrote:

The Windsor framework has been delayed until end March 25 but I'd still hope that prior to this eBay could incorporate TSS and UKIM registration into the system to enable sellers to keep sending goods to NI without obligations to meet GPSR.

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As it stands once the GPSRs come into force Northern Ireland will effectively become a third-country where small GB retailers are concerned. Businesses such as yours will be particularly affected as you don't have an EU-established manufacturer to nominate as your responsible person so it looks like you will still need to employ one if you want to continue selling to NI.